So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[Strangelove]

That makes it sound like she's shown her "feelings" to him and he's either not reacted, or he's disregarded them. And it sounds like her romantic feelings for him if you go back to the timid and slightly awkward "do you love me?" scene in CoT. There she practically thrusts her heart into his hands and he doesn't give a straight answer back.

Or, do you reckon these are the feelings of fustration over him dragging the past around?

Has been brought up before but I cba finding what I said about it Though it's closer to the second but not quite that.

 

[Raquelborn]

Though it's closer to the second but not quite that.

Lol. Meaning...

 

[Tennyo]

Her expressing her feelings a number of times could be her feelings of frustration at Cloud acting like a twat.

 

[Splintered]

As far as Cloud's feelings for Aerith, I wouldn't neccesarily say love- but I wouldn't put it past him. By the end of the first disk, I think he was so emotionally battered and mentally confused that any romance during that time would have been... disingueous. I have a hard time believing that by the time the entire game ended that he could really love someone in a purely romantic way.

But I think it could have happened. If Aerith were alive, I actually think it would have happened. He was definitely romantically interested in her, and there was a budding relationship between the two. That's the whole tragedy of Aerith, it's a "would have, could have, should have" kind of thing. They could have fallen in love. She would have gone on an airship. She should have seen the entire would. But it's impossible to know, it died before it barely even started.

If he didn't fall in love with her yet, then there would be no way for that relationship to develop. There was only two ways it could have gone. 1. Guilt and tragedy or 2. Accepting it and moving on, with their memory in their heart. He did the first, and by the end of AC/ACC he did the second.

Of course, if a person does think he did fall in love, then I could see him loving beyond the grave as a tragic romance. Just personally though, I couldn't actually see him falling into love or a relationship, fully, until the end of AC- where he finally sorted out himself.

It's not stopping Vincent from loving Lucrecia. XD *imagines him necroing Luci..*

Vincent locked himself in a basement for years so he can feel sorry for himself without interruption, robbing himself of companionship, character growth, and probably many of his emotions.

Cloud's got a best friend (or lover, whatever you wish to think) that he lives with, a job, a responsibility to help rebuild Edge he gladly took up, and a two kids to take care of.

Vincent-Lucrecia mimic Cloud-Aerith a lot, but they aren't the same. I don't think they are suppose to be. Cloud's got a family, emotional support, and friends. Vincent had nothing, or at least he threw away anything he had to mourn. Cloud almost did that, but his situation was different as the things he cherished were alive and ready for him to come back to them.

 

[Tennyo]

I got the impression that by the end of DoC Vincent was ready to forgive himself for his mistakes and move on. I've always hoped that Lucrecia get's that chance as well. Whether her and Vincent get together or not is irrelevant to me at this point; I just want to see that poor woman find some redemption.

I had a bit of a teeny tiny fanfic idea that involved her going to Cloud and Tifa to apologize for creating Sephiroth then them telling her that there's no need.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Honestly, I think the fact Nojima spoke of Cloud and Aerith's relationship as a hypothetical speaks volumes.

It's a "what if." Implying it never happened but had potential. But the potential was never realized because she was dead, and Cloud never got to actually be himself in the first place. It's only unrealized potential. Never actualization.

 

[Dashell]

Been here a while, I've always known that about Cloud and Aerith. But since when has a lack of a future in the relationship ever stopped couples in love stories?

Hmm sorry I must have been confusing you with someone else. My bad

So again the whole "Do you love me?" scene... why did Tifa ask Cloud that anyway?... in other words, what do I tell a Clerith in a debate when this comes up

 

[Hinata Hyuga]

So again the whole "Do you love me?" scene... why did Tifa ask Cloud that anyway?

I thought she was feeling insecure because he was distancing himself, and not letting her in. Haven't read it in a while, but that was the impression.

On the subject, one of the(many)things that annoys me about the arguments that rabid C/A fans come up with to show that Cloud and Tifa aren't together and that he doesn't love her is when they jump on her jealousy or insecurity. "If she has to ask if he loves her, he doesn't and loves Aerith."

So apparently Tifa being insecure of Cloud's affection means he doesn't love her? And the people saying this are the same people who romanticize Cloud's guilt for Aerith, saying stuff like he how he feels Aerith might blame him for letting her die, and doubts that she loves him(I think that is part of that theory for why Cloud couldn't see Aerith or talk to her before a certain point).

So Cloud can be insecure of Aerith's love because it's soooo angsty and romantic, but it's a DEATH SENTENCE for Tifa.

 

[KissTheRain]

Cloud and Tifa aren't together and that he doesn't love her is when they jump on her jealousy or insecurity. "If she has to ask if he loves her, he doesn't and loves Aerith."

I could buy thapart that Cloud doesn't love her when he doesn't respond, but how does Aerith come into play? It could just be Cloud loves no one, or even he does love Tifa, but is insecure of how he feels of her and doesn't know what to say. Cloud is a pretty shy awkward person. Or since my answer is usually 3 way he could love both and not wanna pick sides. /:

 

[Ryushikaze]

Yes, Legretta, because Aerith has the special exception rule applied to her. To whit, if it might hurt the C/A case, it doesn't work that way.

And yes, that 'Cloud thinks she blames him is why he can't see her' is part of Angelalex's theory. And it has many many holes, several of which I have pointed out on several occasions.

 

[Strangelove]

Lol. Meaning...

On the subject of twisting, there's a line in the Reunion Files where Tifa 'let Cloud know her feelings' numerous times, which people have taken to mean her romantic feelings. But it is specifically her anxieties and worried feelings.

But looking at it again, the way it's written (those feelings/その不&#23433 seems like it's referencing something mentioned earlier, which I think in this case would be something to do with how she's been hurt before.

 

[Dashell]

And yes, that 'Cloud thinks she blames him is why he can't see her' is part of Angelalex's theory. And it has many many holes, several of which I have pointed out on several occasions.

This came up on CxA the other day and to me it seemed plausible... can you point me in the direction of those holes?

 

[Shadowfox]

You mean that her feelings in one sentence was referring to those feelings mentioned in the sentence that immediately preceded it?

GTFO of here with your elitist reading comprehension.

 

[Isabella]

So again the whole "Do you love me?" scene... why did Tifa ask Cloud that anyway?

Cloud was acting withdrawn and was gone a lot by that point in the story. Which scenario makes more sense to you:

a) Tifa is feeling insecure because her boyfriend has pulled away.

b) Tifa has the hots for her roommate/best friend, and, rather than make her "move" by suggesting a romantic relationship in the beginning -- when he's happy, optimistic and blushing -- she decides to broach the subject when he's moody and withdrawn.

As for the typical Clerith response of, "why didn't he answer? He must not love her" ... um, people do realize he was asleep and didn't hear the question, right? He woke up with a perplexed look on his face because someone was talking at him, which is exactly how I would look if I woke up in the same fashion.

 

[Dashell]

Cloud was acting withdrawn and was gone a lot by that point in the story. Which scenario makes more sense to you:

a) Tifa is feeling insecure because her boyfriend has pulled away.

b) Tifa has the hots for her roommate/best friend, and, rather than make her "move" by suggesting a romantic relationship in the beginning -- when he's happy, optimistic and blushing -- she decides to broach the subject when he's moody and withdrawn.

C. Cloud broke her heart cause she couldn't dance. He didn't even want her around. But now she's back to show him she can really shake em down. So the question is, does he love her now that she can dance?

Also yeah he was asleep but then she asked him again only with "Marlene..." but we all know she was talking about herself

 

[Username]

voted tifa, aint it obvious, i once thought it was aerith, but now even though i dont want it to be...its tifa, thats that, evidences has been copied and pasted 3000 times already.

 

[Reith123]

WELL OF COURSE ITS TIFA, IT'LL ALWAYS BE TIFA! EVIDENCE PROVES ITS C/T

 

[Ryushikaze]

This came up on CxA the other day and to me it seemed plausible... can you point me in the direction of those holes?

Well, the MAJOR one being THAT SHE APPEARS TO HIM BEFORE HE FORGIVES HIMSELF.

AA's theory is that Aerith, having the ability to appear to Cloud when he's feeling generally positive, decides NOT to do this, insteads let him stew in guilt for two years in this guilt after appearing briefly at the end of FF7 to not just him but all of AVALANCHE, then in the middle of his guilt trip when she shouldn't be able to appear, she appears to him 'like a mother' to help him get over his guilt.

Later, he gets over his guilt.

So, not only does this theory make Aerith a bitch, it also doesn't make sense with the canon.

 

[Username]

well i wouldent say aerith is a bitch now ryu. come on lol.

 

[Dashell]

Ryu

kidding

okay well... a lot of Cleriths think that MoTP is canon. In there it says that Dyne's was unable to sense his wife's spirit's presence because of his guilt. Aerith had to heal some of his guilt for him to be able to sense her.

In the case of Cloud and Aerith, she's unable to like appear to him but is able to talk to him in his mind. Which is what she did when he was on the bike. Once his guilt started to heal, she was able to appear to him outside his mind. Aerith wasn't doing it to be a bitch, but because for whatever reason, Cloud's guilt was stopping her.

Or at least that's the general theory I think.

 

[Ryushikaze]

well i wouldent say aerith is a bitch now ryu. come on lol.

"Instead of telling Cloud I've never blamed him and he shouldn't think he's responsible since I can appear at any time, I'll let him stew for two years and only appear when he is at absolute rock bottom, and act playful even though he feels shit even though I could have prevented all this by appearing right away'

Yes, the Aerith can appear to Cloud at any time when he's not feeling like shit hypothesis DOES make Aerith a goddamn bitch.

And why didn't she do this beforehand, Quex? And how the hell is 'appearing inside his mind' any different from appearing outside his mind if he's preventing her from appearing in the first place?

Another major goddamn plot hole in the theory is Zack. But then he tends to vanish when the pinks watch the movie, doesn't he.

 

[Dashell]

Not if she's TRYING to appear but can't because his guilt is stopping her for whatever reason...

 

[Ryushikaze]

BUT IT'S NOT STOPPING HER FROM TALKING TO HIM, NOW IS IT?

THAT is why this theory is shit, and why it makes her a bitch if true. EVEN THOUGH Cloud was beating himself up with guilt, SHE COULD TALK TO HIM. So why did she not do so sometime prior?

The hypothesis that does not injure her character must posit that she only recently becomes capable of such appearance, despite Cloud's state, and possibly related to the specific turmoil of the lifestream.

 

[Strangelove]

The trouble with theories is that if people start taking them seriously they end up like "Reno is a chain-smoking drunkard womanizer": stuff that has no real basis but people take to be true

 

[Isabella]

okay well... a lot of Cleriths think that MoTP is canon.

Oh, right, MoTP ... the story in which Aerith sees Cloud's inner self, realizes he belongs with Tifa, and gives them her blessing. I'll never understand why they embrace that thing, even when all common sense says it's official fanfic.