So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[Alessa Gillespie]

I do believe Cloud and Aerith love each other, I do. But I acknowledge that hey, she's dead, and flower-field spirit sex and living in his heart all aside, she's dead and there's no future there.

Exactly. I believe Cloud and Aerith may have been in love with each other in FFVII, but he can't move have a good or healthy future with her, and I think both of them realize that. Thus why Cloud moves in with Tifa and they raise a family together while Aerith is busy trying to combat the negative Lifestream instead of pining after Cloud.

I'd also like to mention that if he really wanted to pine after someone he could no longer be with, I would think he'd try to journey to find a way to be able to see her again. But either because he knows they can't be together or because he's happy being alive, he doesn't seem to try to.

 

[Dashell]

Been here a while, I've always known that about Cloud and Aerith. But since when has a lack of a future in the relationship ever stopped couples in love stories?

I'm just teasing

I'd also like to mention that if he really wanted to pine after someone he could no longer be with, I would think he'd try to journey to find a way to be able to see her again. But either because he knows they can't be together or because he's happy being alive, he doesn't seem to try to.

Especially now since he knows it's possible for her to be ... you know walking around on the planet

 

[KissTheRain]

Exactly. I believe Cloud and Aerith may have been in love with each other in FFVII, but he can't move have a good or healthy future with her, and I think both of them realize that.

It's not stopping Vincent from loving Lucrecia. XD *imagines him necroing Luci..*

 

[Madame Mayor]

And yes, they pull the audience participation shtick a LOT at real theme parks, so running it multiple times doesn't strike me as odd.

Ya, that does make sense. Lucky Cloud he gets to do the play three times. XP

But since when has a lack of a future in the relationship ever stopped couples in love stories?

Cloud loving Aerith after her death wouldn't be an impossible story. However he's never shown to be in love with her before she dies, and the real Cloud never says anything to indicate it either.

No one (or at least no one with common sense) would try to argue that you can't love someone after they die. Have an actual continuing relationship is another story.

I have some more conversation starting questions that have come up from reading more Clerith arguments. It's impossible to believe that Cloud and Tifa aren't together now, but if you really wanted to believe he and Aerith had something romantic and special, does the way the story turned out really need to negate that?

When does moving on mean you didn't love the first person? Like, if Cloud really was in love with Aerith, and he is therefore moving on with Tifa after Aerith's death, does that make whatever he felt for Aerith any less meaningful?

Or Aerith. The fact that she's trying to move on. Does that mean she didn't love Zack? Even if the moving on isn't working out, if she had lived and eventually moved on with Cloud or some other guy, should Zack be giving her the evil eye from the lifestream?

 

[Vendel]

When does moving on mean you didn't love the first person? Like, if Cloud really was in love with Aerith, and he is therefore moving on with Tifa after Aerith's death, does that make whatever he felt for Aerith any less meaningful?

Or Aerith. The fact that she's trying to move on. Does that mean she didn't love Zack? Even if the moving on isn't working out, if she had lived and eventually moved on with Cloud or some other guy, should Zack be giving her the evil eye from the lifestream?

The hypocrisy and different standards for the "moving on" argument are laughable at best. According to the CiC crowed Cloud can't move on because he is still madly in love. Despite no real evidence showing he was in love with her to begin with.

Whereas for Aerith it is perfectly acceptable for her to move on completely from Zack despite having nearly all her actions (with Cloud) in FF7 linked to a dead boyfriend. Not to mention an entire game that focuses on this very real realtionship at length.

 

[Isabella]

When does moving on mean you didn't love the first person? Like, if Cloud really was in love with Aerith, and he is therefore moving on with Tifa after Aerith's death, does that make whatever he felt for Aerith any less meaningful?

No, it doesn't. And people shouldn't feel so threatened by it.

But one point I want to bring up on the matter: Cloud didn't require a whole lot of time to heal, if the person he lost was his one true love. How long was it between Aerith dying and Cloud telling Tifa he wanted her by his side forever? One to two weeks? When my fiance died, it took me years to be ready to move on. This is why I tend to think of him as attracted to Aerith, or falling for Aerith, rather than in love with Aerith, assuming you favored Aerith on disc one. Because a) he knew her such a short time, and b) he moved on so quickly.

 

[KissTheRain]

When my fiance died, it took me years to be ready to move on.

I'm terribly sorry to hear that. I hope you are alright.

This is why I tend to think of him as attracted to Aerith, or falling for Aerith, rather than in love with Aerith, assuming you favored Aerith on disc one. Because a) he knew her such a short time, and b) he moved on so quickly.

The thing is many interpret it as Cloud was and is not romantically involved with Tifa, so he has not moved on in a romantic sense. So he could still be loving Aerith and not forgetting her.

 

[Makoeyes987]

You never replied to my damn post.

 

[Isabella]

The thing is many interpret it as Cloud was and is not romantically involved with Tifa, so he has not moved on in a romantic sense. So he could still be loving Aerith and not forgetting her.

And those people are wrong. You do realize what an asshole that would make Cloud, and what a doormat that would make Tifa, right? Do you think that's how SE intended to portray them?

 

[Vendel]

The thing is many interpret it as Cloud was and is not romantically involved with Tifa, so he has not moved on in a romantic sense. So he could still be loving Aerith and not forgetting her.

Not forgetting and "forever tru wuv" are two different things.

As for not with Tifa? No that makes far too much sense. Involved in a relationship with the woman you live with and raise children with? Not "fantasy" enough.

No. In this setting Aerith living off Cloud like a lifestream parasite and solidifying just for him in the church or a random flower field is more likely.

 

[KissTheRain]

You never replied to my damn post.

I put it into the pile of pms I have to respond to because of the length. I'll post it here though, when I do k? I have work on Friday and that's when I like to respond. *loves reciptionist job*

And those people are wrong. You do realize what an asshole that would make Cloud, and what a doormat that would make Tifa, right? Do you think that's how SE intended to portray them?

Personally Cloud always did come off as a bit of a dick to me. XD And as for Tifa this is what the creators have to say-

"Although there's a lot to Tifa's character, she's actually very much like any other woman who's been left behind by a man. The director, Nomura, said he wanted to make sure she wasn't a clingy woman, but to portray her as though she's been hurt emotionally in a way that others around her cannot easily detect. But Tifa has expressed her feelings plainly to Cloud a number of times."

 

[Makoeyes987]

Personally Cloud always did come off as a bit of a dick to me. XD

...How? Of all people...how is Cloud a dick? Especially one of a level to toy with Tifa's emotions?

And as for Tifa this is what the creators have to say-

"Although there's a lot to Tifa's character, she's actually very much like any other woman who's been left behind by a man. The director, Nomura, said he wanted to make sure she wasn't a clingy woman, but to portray her as though she's been hurt emotionally in a way that others around her cannot easily detect. But Tifa has expressed her feelings plainly to Cloud a number of times."

Yeah, that's a reference to Case of Tifa. What's your point? ACC resolves that and they come back together after Cloud resolves his guilt and protects his family.

 

[Isabella]

Personally Cloud always did come off as a bit of a dick to me. XD

No. Anti-social, yes, but to play on his best friend's emotions and take advantage of her feelings for him? No.

And as for Tifa this is what the creators have to say-

"Although there's a lot to Tifa's character, she's actually very much like any other woman who's been left behind by a man. The director, Nomura, said he wanted to make sure she wasn't a clingy woman, but to portray her as though she's been hurt emotionally in a way that others around her cannot easily detect. But Tifa has expressed her feelings plainly to Cloud a number of times."

They're referring to how she's feeling at the beginning of AC/C, after Cloud has moved out. She's a woman left by a man, and is hurt but is keeping herself together. You can't be left by a man if you were never with that man. That quote is further proof they were together.

 

[Makoeyes987]

They're referring to how she's feeling at the beginning of AC/C, after Cloud has moved out. She's a woman left by a man, and is hurt but is keeping herself together. You can't be left by a man if you were never with that man. That quote is further proof they were together.

Oh shit!!

C-C-C-COMBO!!!!!!

Damn good point. Didn't even think of it that way.

 

[Hinata Hyuga]

And those people are wrong. You do realize what an asshole that would make Cloud, and what a doormat that would make Tifa, right? Do you think that's how SE intended to portray them?

From how Square Enix describes Cloud and Tifa's characters, it sure doesn't seem like it.

But I don't think we can take what they say seriously. They're only responsible for the creation of the story and characters. What would they know about it?

 

[Strangelove]

They're referring to how she's feeling at the beginning of AC/C, after Cloud has moved out. She's a woman left by a man, and is hurt but is keeping herself together. You can't be left by a man if you were never with that man. That quote is further proof they were together.

Yeah, but then he left her

 

[Makoeyes987]

And what did he do after ACC?

 

[DrakeClawfang]

And what did he do after ACC?

Tifa, or so I hear.

 

[Strangelove]

I was going to make a comeback, but I can't match that D:

 

[Makoeyes987]

Whoa, that was a good one Drake. LULZ I wasn't even thinking along those lines.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

It's not stopping Vincent from loving Lucrecia. XD *imagines him necroing Luci..*

I would like to mention that FFVII shows us Lucrecia isn't dead so much as refusing to live like a normal person. I never played Dirge of Cerberus but in the actual game she has a conversation with Vincent about how she won't wake up because everything was her fault, much like how Vincent was when you met him. /Lucreciatangent

 

[DrakeClawfang]

I was going to make a comeback, but I can't match that D:

Whoa, that was a good one Drake. LULZ I wasn't even thinking along those lines.

Thank ye' mates, I do my best.

 

[Raquelborn]

...she's been hurt emotionally in a way that others around her cannot easily detect. But Tifa has expressed her feelings plainly to Cloud a number of times.

That makes it sound like she's shown her "feelings" to him and he's either not reacted, or he's disregarded them. And it sounds like her romantic feelings for him if you go back to the timid and slightly awkward "do you love me?" scene in CoT. There she practically thrusts her heart into his hands and he doesn't give a straight answer back.

Or, do you reckon these are the feelings of fustration over him dragging the past around?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Probably both. Because again, that line is referencing Case of Tifa in the first place.

 

[Tennyo]

Tifa, or so I hear.

Well played, Drake. I raise my glass to you.