So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[Ryushikaze]

@Ryushikaze

I'm going to ignore you because you can't help yourself but insult people and be rude, and you debate like poo'.

And this is further pot calling the kettle black, I'm afraid. You cannot claim the high ground regarding your allegation of my 'insult[ing] people and be[ing] rude' when you tell me I 'debate like poo.'

Further, civility is actually in all cases a red herring to a proper debate, as our insults- unless they are ad hominems and used in place of a debate- as it is upon the merits of the argument and not the person making it that an argument should be judged.

Than you're dismissing my argument because I'm making it is rather insulting, incredibly rude, and completely irrational.
So I say to you, Ms Kingsley, those living in glass houses should not throw stones.

@Perspective- No, same as Tifa does not refer to herself as 'Tifa' all the time, but Case of Tifa is still written from her perspective. She acts as the narrator, distilled through the third person. Same as in Cases Barret, Denzel, Red, Yuffie, and COLB/W.

 

[Reith123]

ok ur stupidity has utterly destroyed the enterprise and caused captain kirks ultimate downfall...
Aerith is dead. cloud isnt a necro for all of u thinking 'love beyond death', because he wont just stop raising the kids and living with tifa because he is pining of aerith still..hey wait! he got over that!!! he no longer feels guilty and realizes his promised land is with tifa and friends! ahh! omg! it feels good to speak truth!

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Totally off topic, but I think it needs to be addressed:

@ Alice Kingsley: That sig is disgusting. You want to parade around with anti-cloti banners, go ahead. Some are quite funny. But using Nazism and genocide--things that actually fucking happened to REAL fucking people--as a representation of YOUR camp and what YOU want to do... well you are either mentally fucking retarded or completely inbred ignorant.

Keep your boots on, but I won't take anything you spew seriously or at any level of educated. Your tweenage cry for attention would be laughable if you weren't using an actual human atrocity as your flag.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yes I do. two actually. Rude of the turks whom in FFVII admitted he had feeling for her, as he did for another AVALANCHE girl. And then theres Jhonny Who opens a bar in dedication to Tifa's and had a sort of relationship with Denzel long before Cloud. I don't see Clouds Affection for Tifa at all more than a Sister. They parallel a couple? Must be divorcing one.

Again I ask. When in FFVII has Tifa ever demonstrated having feelings for Johnny or Rude? If Tifa's a lover to them, she has to love them too. So...when does she express such sentiment?

For CoLW? So Aerith Refers to herself as "The Woman"?

I'm just going to quote hitoshura's entire post so you can see it.

Has anyone posted screencaps here lately? I don't remember seeing any. Why is this becoming such an issue now when it hasn't even been happening?

Re: Who's telling these stories:

Well, so far I've only seemed to have talked about techniques, but what I paid the most attention to was trying to not let by personal opinions come through because it's a novel. I had to remember that I couldn't let it end up as an "I-Novel." Cloud is Cloud. Yuffie is Yuffie. I had to keep in mind that this isn't me. Especially when I was writing late at night (laughs).

[note: I-Novel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Novel ]

Alice Kingsley. That CoLW quote that you are throwing out as your great proofs. Please quote it properly. It is in past tense. It's "was" not "is".

Also, this.

 

[Vendel]

They parallel a couple? Must be divorcing one.

Yeah...a divorcing couple that has been living together and raising children for the better part of 4 years. I mean it's not like they had en entire movie about Cloud getting over his issues and moving on with his life...

Oh wait.

For CoLW? So Aerith Refers to herself as "The Woman"?

 

[Splintered]

Yes I do. two actually. Rude of the turks whom in FFVII admitted he had feeling for her, as he did for another AVALANCHE girl. And then theres Jhonny Who opens a bar in dedication to Tifa's and had a sort of relationship with Denzel long before Cloud. I don't see Clouds Affection for Tifa at all more than a Sister. They parallel a couple? Must be divorcing one.

Actually, they did parallel a divorcing one. Or at least one that was in serious trouble.

That's what made the ending of FFVIIAC so strong. Cloud comes back to where he is suppose to be. He almost walked away, and then he grows stronger, realizes that mutual relationship is something he doesn't want to lose, and they are together again.

Their relationship in Case of Tifa and AC shows that it's a dynamic, growing relationship. With real life troubles, yet when they work it out they are as close as ever. That's what makes them so unique.

 

[Strangelove]

Yes I do. two actually. Rude of the turks whom in FFVII admitted he had feeling for her, as he did for another AVALANCHE girl. And then theres Jhonny Who opens a bar in dedication to Tifa's and had a sort of relationship with Denzel long before Cloud. I don't see Clouds Affection for Tifa at all more than a Sister. They parallel a couple? Must be divorcing one.

Jessie had feelings for Cloud. Does that mean that Jessie/Cloud actually means something?

....What? Stick to a debate please don't steer off topic.

Weren't you the one who kept bringing it up?

For CoLW? So Aerith Refers to herself as "The Woman"?

I don't think you know what you're talking about. It's written in the third person, but it's from the perspective of a single character.

 

[Isabella]

For CoLW? So Aerith Refers to herself as "The Woman"?

How many people have to explain 3rd Person Restrictive to you before you actually go google it yourself?

 

[Reith123]

just like a real life couple!! oh boy ding ding ding!
they got all the problems of a normal couple, and are close as ever when worked out!
oh and btw, ur sig shows ur totally insane with the anti-cloti nazi thing, so since ur so insane, anything and everything u say is nulled and voided XD. (meaning everything u say means nothing)

 

[Strangelove]

I'm going to save you the trouble:

Definition: Third person limited point of view is a method of storytelling in which the narrator knows only the thoughts and feelings of a single character, while other characters are presented externally. Third person limited grants a writer more freedom than first person, but less than third person omniscient.

Examples: Ian McEwan's latest novel, "Saturday," told in first person limited point of view, closely adheres to Henry Perowne's thoughts and perceptions throughout the novel.

The narrator isn't the character themselves, but only knows what they know or feel.

 

[Ryushikaze]

@Alice:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Third+Person+Restricted+narration

 

[Alice Kingsley]

I won't be giving that clarification after what happened last time I did that


And of course, there was all those times Tifa showed a romantic interest in those two.

Obviously it doesn't mean that they must Reciprocate.

Whoa...

When has Tifa ever demonstrated feelings of attraction and romantic love towards Johnny or Rude? Please. We're talking about Tifa's feelings here. How could she be a lover to them.

*Points above* So now being a or the Koibito of someone must automatically be reciprocated? We are also talking about Cloud whom isn't referenced in Tifa's Koibito statement. Unless its left up to interpretation? In which case mine is Rude or Jhonny.

Who would Tifa be a lover to, if not Cloud..since that's the only man she loves?

And really? That's interesting. So I guess Aerith couldn't be thinking of the facets of how she thought and felt for Cloud back when she was alive. She couldn't possibly be thinking of Cloud as someone who she saw as a friend, and lover because she had feelings for the guy and thus never got to act on them. And how could Cloud be her lover if he was none the wiser to her feelings at the time?

You know Cloud matters too? Just cause she(Tifa) loves him doesn't mean he loves her.

“So you won’t have a breakdown..”
Aerith appears in Cloud’s dream, she seems to console him with such advice. This line can infer that Aerith has seen through the essence of Cloud.

If you don't know the Reunion Files...I'll let someone else tell you.

Ah I see you can't back it up then? Fine.

"You try debating with you"

You want me to debate myself? What?

Its a figure of speech 'Mrs./Mr. I'm all that when it comes to literature.'

just like a real life couple!! oh boy ding ding ding!
they got all the problems of a normal couple, and are close as ever when worked out!
oh and btw, ur sig shows ur totally insane with the anti-cloti nazi thing, so since ur so insane, anything and everything u say is nulled and voided XD. (meaning everything u say means nothing)

Duh silly me I totally forgot its Called "Normal Life" not "Final Fantasy" thats why when I look up "FFVII/CloTi Proofs" it says "Not Real You Moron" Because why would there be FANTASY love in a Game Called Final Fantasy? Why not have that Sig someone already accused me of being one?

 

[Strangelove]

Obviously it doesn't mean that they must Reciprocate.

So why do you keep bringing up Rude and Johnny like it actually matters?

 

[Makoeyes987]

*Points above* So now being a or the Koibito of someone must automatically be reciprocated? We are also talking about Cloud whom isn't referenced in Tifa's Koibito statement. Unless its left up to interpretation? In which case mine is Rude or Jhonny.

How can you be defined as someone's lover if it's in a vacuum? Of course it has to be reciprocated. If you're going to be called and referred to as a lover to someone, by definition, it has to be reciprocated. It's not up to interpretation. If Tifa's a lover, it has to be a lover to someone who exists and she loves back. There's only one person. Cloud. It can't be Rude or JOHNNY because she doesn't love them. She isn't lovers with Rude or Johnny.

You know Cloud matters too? Just cause she(Tifa) loves him doesn't mean he loves her.

If Tifa is called a lover to someone, then clearly she would love them. And that's hilarious saying Cloud doesn't love her, seeing as how almost everything he's done has been for her. And he's stated that he wanted to start a life with her.

Cloud looked for the right words.

“A new life.”

“I’m going to live. I think that’s the only way I can be forgiven. All sorts of things… happened.”

“That’s right…”

“But when I think about how many times I’ve thought about how I was going to start a new life, it’s funny.”

“Why?”

“Because I’ve always failed everything.”

“That’s not funny.”

“After this … I think I’ll be okay.”

Cloud was silent for a long time before he spoke again.

“Because I have you this time.”


“You’ve always had me.”

“What I mean is kind of different,” Cloud answered with another smile.

That's totally not indicative of love or affection. Right.

Ah I see you can't back it up then? Fine.

You mean post a quote everyone and their mother knows? No, I'm not. I'm not opening up and bending my Reunion Files book just to educate you. Find it yourself or wait for someone else to post. I don't need to do your homework.

Its a figure of speech 'Mrs./Mr. I'm all that when it comes to literature.'

...Sure it is. Funny I've never heard of that one and it make no sense.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Y'know, we're getting ahead of ourselves again.

Alice seems to be assuming that C/A is the case, and assuming we also begin with the cart before the horse.

If this is not the case, my good lady, then by all means, fulfill your burden of proof, and support your first principles, validate the concept you base everything else on.

In other words, pony up the evidence that Cloud is interested in pursuing a romantic relationship with Aerith.

@ Mako, which quote do you need dug up? The koibito one? Or another?

@Alice

Duh silly me I totally forgot its Called "Normal Life" not "Final Fantasy" thats why when I look up "FFVII/CloTi Proofs" it says "Not Real You Moron" Because why would there be FANTASY love in a Game Called Final Fantasy? Why not have that Sig someone already accused me of being one?

Final fantasys, as a rule, do not have 'fantasy loves'. They are often filled with problems, fights, ups, downs, arguments, and making up.
From Cid3 and his wife, to Yang and his, to Garnet being angry at Zidane while at the same time being happy he's back, to Vaan and Penelo in general, FF couples aren't heavily ever after with no problems the end.
They're at best 'as good as you could expect'

 

[Vendel]

*Points above* So now being a or the Koibito of someone must automatically be reciprocated? We are also talking about Cloud whom isn't referenced in Tifa's Koibito statement. Unless its left up to interpretation? In which case mine is Rude or Jhonny.

At this point I can't tell if your a tard or just a troll.

Maybe both?

Just because the word koibito means a mutual relationship. Does not mean it can't be used improperly. If I called you my lover that does not change the meaning of the damn word. It just means I'm wrong. (or am I?)

As for who is Tifa's koibito? I'm sorry but your logic is fail on so many levels. Seriously if they said Romeo is someones koibito in the play Romeo and Juliet would you think he was koibito to the nurse?

 

[Splintered]

*Points above* So now being a or the Koibito of someone must automatically be reciprocated? We are also talking about Cloud whom isn't referenced in Tifa's Koibito statement. Unless its left up to interpretation? In which case mine is Rude or Jhonny.

Then how is Aerith's koibito special? Because she said it?

 

[Makoeyes987]

She's apparently asking for the koibito quote from the Reunion Files. The one everyone knows about. I seriously cba opening mine up for such a silly reason.

 

[Reith123]

lol @ vendels r + j comment, its a good point tho vendel

 

[haichinamie]

Can someone give me the low-down on new Cloti profz? I am too lazy to read Nanaki's story, so was there anything mentioned there about the two like in Barret's story about women wearing the pants?

 

[Ryushikaze]

She's apparently asking for the koibito quote from the Reunion Files. The one everyone knows about. I seriously cba opening mine up for such a silly reason.

She is not familiar with the only actual english language released compilation book?

Kersigh...

Sentence, and breakdown.
Full page along shortly.

The only thing not mentioned there is the usage of Koibito as beloved.

However, I can't help but recall someone's rather hastily crafted and illogical argument that someone telling everything that 'Grimjow is mah Koibito' meant that Nomura couldn't be referring to Tifa as being someone's koibito because sometimes fans use it when it is not factually correct? I forget exactly, but it was incredibly hilarious to recall and note that it can be said by a character incorrectly as well, and that one of the two in question is spoken in universe, and one is spoken out of universe...

@Splintered: Because Aerith can't ever be wrong. Ever. Even when she is, and admits such.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Ryu, I knew there was a reason I liked you. Aside from the great sex

 

[Alice Kingsley]

So why do you keep bringing up Rude and Johnny like it actually matters?

Thats me Countering the dumb remarks about 'Cloud being Aeriths lover' doesn't mean they love each other.

How can you be defined as someone's lover if it's in a vacuum? Of course it has to be reciprocated. If you're going to be called and referred to as a lover to someone, by definition, it has to be reciprocated. It's not up to interpretation. If Tifa's a lover, it has to be a lover to someone who exists and she loves back. There's only one person. Cloud. It can't be Rude or JOHNNY because she doesn't love them. She isn't lovers with Rude or Johnny.

Oh yes she can according to you guys, Cloud is Called AERITHS lover yet you say it does'nt count for both sides? You basically proved my point. Thank you.

If Tifa is called a lover to someone, then clearly she would love them. And that's hilarious saying Cloud doesn't love her, seeing as how almost everything he's done has been for her. And he's stated that he wanted to start a life with her.

*Checks quote* hm? Nope Cloud Never says "-with you Tifa" You like to give things you own subtext don't you?

You mean post a quote everyone and their mother knows? No, I'm not. I'm not opening up and bending my Reunion Files book just to educate you. Find it yourself or wait for someone else to post. I don't need to do your homework.

You can't expect to debate like that, "I have proof but you have to find it yourself!" Thats not homework. Science and Math is homework, you knwo something that will do my life good. This, this is like a hobby...Not my life. Okay don't bend you unopened book then.

...Sure it is. Funny I've never heard of that one and it make no sense.

Theirs a book for figures of Speech?

At this point I can't tell if your a tard or just a troll.

Maybe both?

Just because the word koibito means a mutual relationship. Does not mean it can't be used improperly. If I called you my lover that does not change the meaning of the damn word. It just means I'm wrong. (or am I?)

As for who is Tifa's koibito? I'm sorry but your logic is fail on so many levels. Seriously if they said Romeo is someones koibito in the play Romeo and Juliet would you think he was koibito to the nurse?

Ah... Here are the insults to help you hide yourself...Oh so now the writer of CoWL is just wrong in his own language? Well thats a different story Romeo and Juliet are said clearly to be Star Crossed Lovers. Did the Creators call Cloud and Tifa that? So Of course I'd assume it was Juliet the person was talking about.

The Story of the Unhappy lovers of Verona-Romeo and Juliet

-and the book is Called "Romeo and Juliet", an in the Introduction it states great a many time that Romeo and Juliet are indeed on an others lover, so anyone reading it would of course assume Romeos Koibito to be that of Juliet.

-And is FFVII Subtitled 'Cloud and Tifa'?

Then how is Aerith's koibito special? Because she said it?

Aerith didn't say it the Writer said it in reference to Aerith, I say again can Aerith possibly call herself "the Woman?"

 

[KissTheRain]

Wow more "real debate" hmm, lemme get some good facts out then...

I know my favorite-

Tifa can choose to ride the chocobo at the Golden Saucer, inferring she enjoys riding chocobos. (also note her attire in CC, very cowboy girl like ) Cloud's hair is like a chocobo, concluding the fact-Tifa wants to ride Cloud.

 

[Strangelove]

Aerith didn't say it the Writer said it in reference to Aerith, I say again can Aerith possibly call herself "the Woman?"

You don't read the replies you get, do you?