So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[DrakeClawfang]

Just a FYI, for those who have not read the Reunion Files, or may desire access to them -

http://gallery.digik.net/gallery/496

 

[Makoeyes987]

Oh yes she can according to you guys, Cloud is Called AERITHS lover yet you say it does'nt count for both sides? You basically proved my point. Thank you.

One is a statement of what Aerith thinks of Cloud. The other is a creator's statment on what Tifa's role is in AC and the Compilation. They are not the same. Your point is null because you're comparing apples and oranges. The two quotes aren't equal. Please, for God's sake, learn some context.

*Checks quote* hm? Nope Cloud Never says "-with you Tifa" You like to give things you own subtext don't you?

Who else would he be talking about? Your pedantic bull is getting really weak.

You can't expect to debate like that, "I have proof but you have to find it yourself!" Thats not homework. Science and Math is homework, you knwo something that will do my life good. This, this is like a hobby...Not my life. Okay don't bend you unopened book then.

Ryu provided it, as I said would happen. So quit crying.

Aerith didn't say it the Writer said it in reference to Aerith, I say again can Aerith possibly call herself "the Woman?"

Do you even read what you respond to? I'm gonna quote hitoshura again. READ IT. You have no excuse to be ignorant.

Has anyone posted screencaps here lately? I don't remember seeing any. Why is this becoming such an issue now when it hasn't even been happening?

Re: Who's telling these stories:

Well, so far I've only seemed to have talked about techniques, but what I paid the most attention to was trying to not let by personal opinions come through because it's a novel. I had to remember that I couldn't let it end up as an "I-Novel." Cloud is Cloud. Yuffie is Yuffie. I had to keep in mind that this isn't me. Especially when I was writing late at night (laughs).

[note: I-Novel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Novel ]

Read. And visit that link. Stop hiding behind ignorance. Aerith is the one who's thoughts are the central focus. It's Restricted Third Person. More specifically, a Japanese I-Novel. It's only Aerith's point of view.

 

[Alice Kingsley]

Oh god, Life Calls. I'll get back to this later...Don't spam too much...

 

[Vendel]

Oh god, Life Calls. I'll get back to this later...Don't spam too much...

Wow it's like a Clerith playbook.

Are you really a rabid pinker? Or just a very successful CloTi in disguise?

If so I applaud you. If not. Well have fun remembering to breathe all day.

 

[Isabella]

THIRD-PERSON LIMITED NARRATION OR LIMITED OMNISCIENCE : Focusing a third-person narration through the eyes of a single character. Even when an author chooses to tell a narrative through omniscient narration, s/he will sometimes (or even for the entire tale) limit the perspective of the narrative to that of a single character, choosing for example only to narrate the inner thoughts of that one character. The narrative is still told in third-person (unlike first-person narration); however, it is clear that it is, nonetheless, being told through the eyes of a single character.

Sorry for the big type. I just wanted to make sure it was seen.

 

[Ryushikaze]

"Nomura: Disapproving Cloti Proof since 1997", does that mean HE is the dissapproving proof? That's incredibly apt given his comment in RF, and his killing of Aerith, and all, but I still don't get the disapproving. Unless you mean 'disapproving of' or 'dissaproving cloti proofs' or even 'disproving', but none of those are correct.

Enjoy life, Kinglsey, though one wonders why it needed to be announced. I tend to just leave for life at whim when the mood strikes and sod the internet.

 

[Tetsujin]

Someone remove that bullshit Cleris Nazi sig imo.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Oh god, Life Calls. I'll get back to this later...Don't spam too much...

Come on, I'm a Clerith too, but even *I* think you're running away now. If you've got time to post that "BRB newbs" comment, you can spare a few more minutes to reply to the other debaters.

 

[Reith123]

i just gotta point out, i find it funny, EVERYTIME I LOG BACK IN, ANOTHER VOTE FOR TIFA COMES IN AND THE NUMBER KEEPS GOING UP. SMART PEOPLE KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING ^^

 

[Splintered]

Aerith didn't say it the Writer said it in reference to Aerith, I say again can Aerith possibly call herself "the Woman?"

Oh dear. There are four literary points of view.

First person, second person, third person restrictive, third person omniscient. I've never heard of a novel written second person so let's ignore that. First person and third person restrictive only details the main character's thoughts and, obviously, can't get into anyone else's head. You are thinking about third person omniscient, which details everyone's feelings and thoughts. Third person restrictive, the narrator is the main character, third person omniscient, the narrator is the author.

It is obvious that in CoL:W that the narrator is Aerith, not the author as she can not ascertain the views and thoughts of other characters. She has no way of knowing the entire universe and the feelings of others except for their observable actions. All of Case Of ... novels are written this way. In fact, most novels are written this way. Very few novels are written third person omniscient, as it's pretty difficult to.

And, of course, when writing in third person, people use third person pronouns and nouns. Hence the he, she, and "The Woman." Only in first person would she use first person "I, Me." It makes plenty of sense for the novel to narrate the way of "The Woman."

 

[Fairheartstrife]

**sigh** You know, it's really not worth my time, especially considering my condemnation of that disgusting signature, but being and education major, seeing so much idiocy in one localized post makes my brain twitch.

Here goes...

*Checks quote* hm? Nope Cloud Never says "-with you Tifa" You like to give things you own subtext don't you?

“After this … I think I’ll be okay.”

Cloud was silent for a long time before he spoke again.

“Because I have you this time.” *Please note that CLOUD is talking to TIFA here*

“You’ve always had me.”

“What I mean is kind of different,” Cloud answered with another smile.

No subtext was added, because what his point was IS IN THE TEXT.

You can't expect to debate like that, "I have proof but you have to find it yourself!" Thats not homework. Science and Math is homework, you knwo something that will do my life good.

I feel the need to point out: KNOW and also silently snicker at the fact that any of this "does your life good"... Carrying on...

This, this is like a hobby...Not my life. Okay don't bend you unopened book then.

Okay, good then. It's also a hobby for most of us, and therefore we don't need to supply you with the armaments of your argument. If you don't have them, or lack sufficient knowledge, then please to be shutting the fuck up, yes?

Theirs a book for figures of Speech?

For the love of... THERE'S as in a conjunctive of THERE and IS. Are you even in high school? I mean, seriously?

Ah... Here are the insults to help you hide yourself...Oh so now the writer of CoWL is just wrong in his own language?

COLW: Case of Lifestream White. No idea what Batman's headgear has to do with any of this...

And no one said Nojima used the incorrect terminology or wrong language. We are saying that YOU are not understanding how a THIRD PERSON RESTRICTIVE NARRATIVE works, despite the fucking GOOGLE pages handed to you. THEY DID your fucking homework and you're STILL failing. Epically.

Well thats a different story Romeo and Juliet are said clearly to be Star Crossed Lovers. Did the Creators call Cloud and Tifa that? So Of course I'd assume it was Juliet the person was talking about.

*facepalm* Way to miss the whole point. Good dodge.

-and the book is Called "Romeo and Juliet", an in the Introduction it states great a many time that Romeo and Juliet are indeed on an others lover, so anyone reading it would of course assume Romeos Koibito to be that of Juliet.

-And is FFVII Subtitled 'Cloud and Tifa'?

It may as well be.

And it's a play. Romeo and Juliet is a play.

Modified, redone and regurgitated a thousand different ways, but at the base, it's a play... **sigh**

Aerith didn't say it the Writer said it in reference to Aerith, I say again can Aerith possibly call herself "the Woman?"

Could you maybe take a freshman Lit course and get back to us on this. Because you are missing the point and it's a truck-sized point, so the fact that you are still uncomprehending is staggering both in the lack of comprehension skills on your part, but also in the great gap we seem to have in our education system where you can't understand the limited restriction of the NARRATOR. It is NEVER Nojima talking--as the creator. There is no omnipresent source, it is only Aerith's POV told directly from her or from the narrator who is LIMITED to her POV. Christmas in July, kid, fucking GET that already.

You can't be that dumb. Please. I'm hoping you're just putting on a show, otherwise you're really not worth the response time after this.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Oh god, Life Calls. I'll get back to this later...Don't spam too much...

HAHA. Oh wow..this is fucking gold.

 

[Tetsujin]

HAHA. Oh wow..this is fucking gold.

I wonder how you guys can just have these macros and screenshots etc ready for moments like this one, just like that.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

That's epic. Tyrant...

I wonder how you guys can just have these macros and screenshots etc ready for moments like this one, just like that.

Alice's weakness of having a "life" is one I don't share. That's how I do it, at least.

 

[The White Queen]

So why do you keep bringing up Rude and Johnny like it actually matters?

Hmm, I think I know what she is getting at. I believe (and I could be wrong) she is trying to convey the thought that just because one person (Tifa) loves someone else (Cloud) does not mean the person he or she likes should like them back. And about the koibito quote dealing with Tifa. There is something off about it... It doesn't speak of Tifa being a koibito to anyone especially Cloud. So how can we assume it is in reference to Cloud when his name is not even mentioned in the entire sentence? We cannot. I'm just going to add one thing, if the Japanese creators wanted us to believe that Tifa was the koibito to Cloud, they would have said his name in the sentence instead of leaving it up to debate. I understand that when a Japanese person says something of high importance such as stating who is your lover they always link it with a name. In this instance they did not do such a thing. But for Case Of Lifestream: White, it says; Cloud is the woman's friend, lover (koibito)---he is a symbol for something important, an existence that she must protect. It clearly identifies whom the koibito is and to whom they belong. About Alice, I assure you all, she is not retreating. She is simply eating lunch.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

I wonder how you guys can just have these macros and screenshots etc ready for moments like this one, just like that.

Lack of sexlife sleep.

 

[Eerie]

Hmm, I think I know what she is getting at. I believe (and I could be wrong) she is trying to convey the thought that just because one person (Tifa) loves someone else (Cloud) does not mean the person he or she likes should like them back. And about the koibito quote dealing with Tifa. There is something off about it... It doesn't speak of Tifa being a koibito to anyone especially Cloud. So how can we assume it is in reference to Cloud when his name is not even mentioned in the entire sentence? We cannot. I'm just going to add one thing, if the Japanese creators wanted us to believe that Tifa was the koibito to Cloud, they would have said his name in the sentence instead of leaving it up to debate. I understand that when a Japanese person says something of high importance such as stating who is your lover they always link it with a name. In this instance they did not do such a thing. But for Case Of Lifestream: White, it says; Cloud is the woman's friend, lover (koibito)---he is a symbol for something important, an existence that she must protect. It clearly identifies whom the koibito is and to whom they belong. About Alice, I assure you all, she is not retreating. She is simply eating lunch.

On one hand, you have the quote that Tifa is being someone's lovers. On the other hand, you have the fact that she loved Cloud since way back then; and you have the quote that says that Cloud is her ideal man. Tell me, HOW CAN THE LOVER BE NOT CLOUD?

Also, after reading pages of crap:

Seriously, guys.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Hmm, I think I know what she is getting at. I believe (and I could be wrong) she is trying to convey the thought that just because one person (Tifa) loves someone else (Cloud) does not mean the person he or she likes should like them back. And about the koibito quote dealing with Tifa. There is something off about it... It doesn't speak of Tifa being a koibito to anyone especially Cloud. So how can we assume it is in reference to Cloud when his name is not even mentioned in the entire sentence? We cannot. I'm just going to add one thing, if the Japanese creators wanted us to believe that Tifa was the koibito to Cloud, they would have said his name in the sentence instead of leaving it up to debate. I understand that when a Japanese person says something of high importance such as stating who is your lover they always link it with a name. In this instance they did not do such a thing.

But as I said, who else could Nomura be talking to? If you refer to someone as being a koibito/lover of someone....it must be in reference to a person. And it must be mutual. You can't be a one-sided lover or girlfriend. It has to be mutual to be an actual relationship. If she's a koibito/lover in terms of her role in AC and the Compilation...who else would it be? She doesn't love anyone else but Cloud. Cloud has expressed feelings for Tifa. By simple logic and parsimony, it's Cloud. Who else could it be?

But for Case Of Lifestream: White, it says; Cloud is the woman's friend, lover (koibito)---he is a symbol for something important, an existence that she must protect. It clearly identifies whom the koibito is and to whom they belong. About Alice, I assure you all, she is not retreating. She is simply eating lunch.

And again, that's a statement of what Aerith thinks about Cloud in a third person restricted novella that's in-universe. It is not the same as Nomura, an FFVII creator, speaking in reality about how the fictional character Tifa is a lover in terms of the story of AC and the compilation. They are not the same thing, and Aerith's doesn't supersede what a creator has stated as fact.

And that sure was a conveniently timed lunch. But whatever, if she comes back, she'll come back and we'll see for ourselves.

 

[Strangelove]

Enjoy life, Kinglsey, though one wonders why it needed to be announced. I tend to just leave for life at whim when the mood strikes and sod the internet.

To remind all the rapid Clotis who sit on this forum all day of what they don't have and make 'em ~jealous~.

Also, was it explained why The White Queen has the same IP as Alice/MadHatter? Another sister?

@Mako: :retreat:

I'm going to stop doing that now, I think I'm overstepping my bounds

 

[Makoeyes987]

@Mako: :retreat:

I'm going to stop doing that now, I think I'm overstepping my bounds

No. You're performing epically. I support you 110%.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Hmm, I think I know what she is getting at. I believe (and I could be wrong) she is trying to convey the thought that just because one person (Tifa) loves someone else (Cloud) does not mean the person he or she likes should like them back.

THIS. Holds true for Aerith. Just because Aerith loves Cloud and refers to him as her beloved--if we go so far as to assume "the woman" is indeed Aerith and not Ilfana--that doesn't make the emotion reciprocated.

And about the koibito quote dealing with Tifa. There is something off about it... It doesn't speak of Tifa being a koibito to anyone especially Cloud. So how can we assume it is in reference to Cloud when his name is not even mentioned in the entire sentence? We cannot. I'm just going to add one thing, if the Japanese creators wanted us to believe that Tifa was the koibito to Cloud, they would have said his name in the sentence instead of leaving it up to debate. I understand that when a Japanese person says something of high importance such as stating who is your lover they always link it with a name. In this instance they did not do such a thing.

And we move on to Tifa, where I have to say: HOWEVER, having an omnipresent statement by the creators OUTSIDE of character perspective tells us that Tifa is "someone's" lover, and given compilation history and what we KNOW and not what we "wish", we KNOW Tifa has only ever had feelings for Cloud. It's on her fucking game bio, for Pete's sake. **sigh**

Your logic fails on that alone.

But for Case Of Lifestream: White, it says; Cloud is the woman's friend, lover (koibito)---he is a symbol for something important, an existence that she must protect.

Ilfana.

Cloud means a lot to her.

It clearly identifies whom the koibito is and to whom they belong.

BZZT. Wrong. By your very own logic, all that sentence says is that Cloud is a lover of "the woman" but since the woman is NEVER specifically referenced we cannot infer her to be Aerith specifically. Had it been meant to be Aerith, surely the creators would have used her name at least once...

About Alice, I assure you all, she is not retreating. She is simply eating lunch.

Or posting as a White Queen. Whichever...

 

[Makoeyes987]

Hey, we don't need to assume bad faith here Fairheartedstrife. I don't think we've got a dupe on her hands here. She's no sockpuppet.

 

[Strangelove]

Hmm, I think I know what she is getting at. I believe (and I could be wrong) she is trying to convey the thought that just because one person (Tifa) loves someone else (Cloud) does not mean the person he or she likes should like them back. And about the koibito quote dealing with Tifa. There is something off about it... It doesn't speak of Tifa being a koibito to anyone especially Cloud. So how can we assume it is in reference to Cloud when his name is not even mentioned in the entire sentence? We cannot.

I think we can, because who else would be a likely candidate (given what we've been shown) to be a lover to Tifa? Johnny, who she shows no romantic interest in? Rude, who she barely interacts with outside of fighting? Barret, who as well as Tifa not showing an interest in him never even hints at having romantic feelings for Tifa?

I'm just going to add one thing, if the Japanese creators wanted us to believe that Tifa was the koibito to Cloud, they would have said his name in the sentence instead of leaving it up to debate. I understand that when a Japanese person says something of high importance such as stating who is your lover they always link it with a name.

Where does that understanding come from?

Japanese fans assumed it was in reference to Cloud, despite it not saying his name. Are you saying they don't know their own language?

 

[The White Queen]

Lack of sexlife sleep.

That signature is a bit.... rude. Cleriths: Suffering from IDS since 1997. @Syneiam, that lemon picture is HILARIOUS! But you're not seriously going to kill yourself because of a game debate right? That's what that picture means, right? Right? Back on topic, It could be talking about a number of men... or women. Like Alice said Johnny, Rude, Barret, Vincent, Cid, Don C., or Cloud if you think that way. But if it did not say Cloud's name you cannot logically assume it is in reference to Cloud. Besides, the official English translation is sweetheart and that can be used by anyone to anyone. My grandmother calls me sweetheart and I call my niece sweetheart. So when it comes down to it, yes the koibito word was used. No, Cloud's name was not mentioned. And yes, the Official English translation of that sentence is in fact sweetheart. Meaning that the officials did not want the word to be translated as anything romantic in anyway.

Hey, we don't need to assume bad faith here Fairheartedstrife. I don't think we've got a dupe on her hands here. She's no sockpuppet.

What does that mean? I few pages ago I saw someone say something rude about my signature and avatar and font size. I changed the size but I will not be changing my set. Sorry.

Japanese fans assumed it was in reference to Cloud, despite it not saying his name. Are you saying they don't know their own language?

Hmm, I have never seen this but I suppose I will believe you. Perhaps they were becoming desperate and used everything and anything? After all, that's what I have learned about the language.... That we need names for things like that.

 

[Alice Kingsley]

Fairheartstrife

Then don't post Seriously you are the one who referenced me being a Clerith/Pink Jack boots in the first place, thats what this is right? Its not Like im a... Er...izaN[Spell it backwards] I'm related Jewish myself. I just take it offensively when you preach it to me about being one for Game lame ass game LTD.