So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

Who does Cloud love?

  • Aerith

    Votes: 20 14.2%
  • Tifa

    Votes: 121 85.8%

  • Total voters
    141
Status
Not open for further replies.

Shadowfox

You look like you need a monkey
Koibito.......?

Wouldn't count. The woman thinking of Cloud as her koibito was never named, and since our current standard of proof is that we need specific mention of who, what and/or where in order to conclude romance, we can't simply assume that the woman in the Lifestream was Aerith.
 

I Am Not Me

The Mean Clack
AKA
Mei, Koibito, Stalker, Little Dude, Nami
Okay, I am so happy. Finally we have Cleriths here...
happycry2.gif


Belated welcome to the LTD, Clerith/s. Beware of the Clacks, they're very defensive about their canon. Don't challenge them. :awesome:

...also...

Rabid its said Rabid, Geez. Rapid is a pace of movement.

Rapid -
1. occurring within a short time; happening speedily: rapid growth. 2. moving or acting with great speed; swift: a rapid worker. 3. characterized by speed: rapid motion.

LOL@U

Too sensitive to take a joke? Chill out, dudette. :monster: Rapid is an in-joke. You can just take a guess where it came from and why we're using it.

For reference can someone show me where it's stated that Aerith and Cloud were EVER in a romantic relationship? I mean, I just want to try and follow the logic...

I have several Clerith essays I can point you to. :monster:
 

haichinamie

Banned
Thats me Countering the dumb remarks about 'Cloud being Aeriths lover' doesn't mean they love each other.

Oh yes she can according to you guys, Cloud is Called AERITHS lover yet you say it does'nt count for both sides? You basically proved my point. Thank you.

*Checks quote* hm? Nope Cloud Never says "-with you Tifa" You like to give things you own subtext don't you?

You can't expect to debate like that, "I have proof but you have to find it yourself!" Thats not homework. Science and Math is homework, you knwo something that will do my life good. This, this is like a hobby...Not my life. Okay don't bend you unopened book then.

Theirs a book for figures of Speech?
Ah... Here are the insults to help you hide yourself...Oh so now the writer of CoWL is just wrong in his own language? Well thats a different story Romeo and Juliet are said clearly to be Star Crossed Lovers. Did the Creators call Cloud and Tifa that? So Of course I'd assume it was Juliet the person was talking about.

-and the book is Called "Romeo and Juliet", an in the Introduction it states great a many time that Romeo and Juliet are indeed on an others lover, so anyone reading it would of course assume Romeos Koibito to be that of Juliet.

-And is FFVII Subtitled 'Cloud and Tifa'?
Aerith didn't say it the Writer said it in reference to Aerith, I say again can Aerith possibly call herself "the Woman?"

Can you please change your avatar because I am dying from second-hand embarassment here

Another possible reference to Aerith is the angel statue in Edge, right outside Seventh Heaven. Aerith is, after all, the savior of the world in FFVII. Nothing is said about who erected the statue or what it represents. But, it is possible that the people of Edge decided to honor Aerith's sacrifice with this statue as a memorial for her.
 
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Alex

alex is dead
AKA
Alex, Ashes, Pennywise, Bill Weasley, Jack's Smirking Revenge, Sterling Archer
And kiddo, I've taught university English classes. I'm far from being a crazed, teenage fangirl shipper. Put the mirror down.

i-lold.jpg


The universities you can book courses for over pop-up ads online don't count you stupid fangirl :awesome:
 

haichinamie

Banned
I just thought I'd post this for anyone who is interested in reading it. :D It took me awhile, because I can't stay online for long periods, so I just had to do a little at a time, but here it is:

Cloud and Aerith in Advent Children

The importance of Aerith is established early in Advent Children. Even in the AC menu, she is the second character to be shown, directly between Sephiroth and Cloud. These three make up the original villain, heroine, and hero of the game. Although Aerith's name is never spoken throughout AC, it is made clear that her companions have never forgotten her. From Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children -Reunion Files-:

"In the first script, we realized that none of the companions ever talked about Aerith. Someone suggested that if they're not going to say anything, they should at least wear something that shows how they feel. So we had them wear a ribbon as a way of saying that they haven't forgotten about Aerith." (Nomura)

Before AC, Cloud was living at the new Seventh Heaven in Edge, just outside of Midgar, with Barret, Tifa, Marlene, and Denzel (as told in the official novella Case of Tifa). Barret has since left to work in Corel, digging for oil. The office for Cloud's delivery service is located in his bedroom, which is very stark and barren in appearance, almost as if he doesn't come by often. During the events related in CoT, it is revealed that Cloud spends most of his time traveling around on Fenrir, making deliveries and he is often gone for long periods of time. His relationship with Tifa has become strained ever since Barret left and Cloud hides things from Tifa (such as the modifications for his bike, the fact that he had started his own business, and the fact that he was frequenting Aerith's church). Tifa is often seen scolding Cloud like a mother and Cloud acts guilty, like a rebellious teenager. During the novella, Cloud meets an orphan boy named Denzel at Aerith's church. Cloud believes that Aerith brought Denzel to him and feels a certain attachment to the boy, eventually taking him to live at Seventh Heaven. However, by the end of the novella, Cloud disappears without a word to Tifa and begins to reject the company of all of his former friends. In Reunion Files, it was stated that "His inability to forgive himself has caused him to distance himself from Tifa and the others".

During the events of AC, Cloud is living in Aerith's church and has not told anyone where he is nor has he told anyone that he is afflicted with the terminal illness, Geostigma. For me, this was the first big ClAeris hint. Why live in a place that reminds him of Aerith? Why not live at Seventh Heaven, which is in much better condition and isn't far away at all? Why run to a place that reminds him of the flower girl he lost when he finds out he is terminally ill? Why is it that he feels most at peace here?

Back at Seventh Heaven, Tifa is still answering Cloud's calls for him. It is during this scene that you catch a glimpse of Cloud's desk, cluttered with receipts. However, if you look closely to the right, you will notice a picture of a bouquet of flowers inside someone's home. During Case of Tifa, Cloud was hired by Aerith's adopted mother, Elmyra, to take flowers to Aerith's grave in the Forgotten City. This photo has to be of those flowers. It is the only explanation that makes sense. I thought it was rather sweet that Cloud wanted to keep a photo of flowers meant for Aerith. ^_^

During Advent Children, Aerith's presence is felt by her association with water. Every time the camera pans in on ripples in a puddle or a drop of water, Aerith's presence is near; every time the song "Water" begins to play, Aerith's presence is being focused upon. From Reunion Files:

"...Aerith has a sort of 'watery' image about her, so we used water to convey her presence".

Another possible reference to Aerith is the angel statue in Edge, right outside Seventh Heaven. Aerith is, after all, the savior of the world in FFVII. Nothing is said about who erected the statue or what it represents. But, it is possible that the people of Edge decided to honor Aerith's sacrifice with this statue as a memorial for her.

The first time in the movie where Aerith makes her presence known to the viewer is the scene in the church after Tifa is defeated by Loz. Cloud arrives too late to help her, but is concerned for his injured companion. However, he falls unconscious from the effects of Geostigma. Immediately after Cloud falls to the ground amid Aerith's flowers, a water drop is seen and the song "Water" begins to play. After that, a white light (which is later shown to be associated with Aerith) appears all around Cloud and Tifa, surrounding them both until they appear to be lying amid nothing but flowers and light. Nearby stands a wolf in the flowers which was confirmed to be a manifestation of Cloud's guilt (in this case, toward the death of Aerith). In this scene, Aerith is shown to be watching over Cloud and Tifa as she heals their wounds. From Reunion Files:

"'There's some foreshadowing that the church is where Aerith is going to appear,' says Nojima. 'There's a point in the plot where Cloud and Tifa are lying unconscious on the flowers here, and their wounds are healed....'"

The first time that Aerith is seen in Advent Children is during Cloud's ride through the Sleeping Forest on Fenrir to rescue the abducted children from Kadaj and company. This scene is the turning point for Cloud, the beginning of his emotional healing. After this scene, with the help of Aerith several more times throughout the movie, Cloud slowly begins to forgive himself, his guilt and grief starts to lessen, and Cloud regains the will to fight once again.

Cloud rides toward the Forgotten City to rescue Marlene and Denzel, both kidnapped by the silver-haired men. Looking distressed, Cloud rides toward the site of Aerith's grave; the journey is clearly a difficult one for him. From Reunion Files:

"The Forgotten City is tied to Aerith throughout the film. Here, Cloud is constantly reminded of her no matter how painful it is for him." (Nojima)

Also from RF:

"Cloud finds himself lost in emotion, as he races his motorcycle to the enemy's base".

Again, from RF:

"I think that part of the reason we decided to have Kadaj's base in the Forgotten City is because it's the one place that Cloud avoids. But at the same time, perhaps he's drawn to it. There's a sort of hidden meaning to it, with the maternal essence of Aerith that lingers there." (Nomura)

And again, from RF:

"When Cloud regains consciousness, Reno and Rude tell him about the orphans being abducted, and that they had been taken to Kadaj's base, in the 'Forgotten City'. Upon hearing this, Cloud hesitates, because of the association with Aerith's death."

As Cloud rides, he finds himself thrust suddenly into a white world. Aerith's Theme begins to play. As the camera pans around Cloud, you spot a familiar figure-- it's Aerith, standing back-to-back with him in a gorgeous field of flowers.

"You splooged," Aerith says, sounding happy, "even though you're about to break. Mmm?"

Aerith tenderly places her left hand on Cloud's left arm, the limb affected by Geostigma. Cloud hangs his head and turns his face away slightly, almost as if he is ashamed to face the flower girl that he believes he failed to protect.

"That's a good sign," Aerith continues in her quiet and gentle voice. "So... why did you come?"

"I think..." Cloud begins hesitantly "... I want to be forgiven. Mm... more than... anything."

"By who?" Aerith asks teasingly, showing everyone that she is still the same lovable Aerith we know from FFVII.

Cloud tries to turn and face Aerith then, but finds himself back in reality, where he is still astride Fenrir, speeding through the Sleeping Forest. The reason for his abrupt return soon becomes evident as Cloud is attacked by Kadaj's gang.

During the battle with Kadaj's gang, Cloud's cell phone falls into the Forgotten City's spring, which is also Aerith's burial site (this will become important later). Just when it seems as if Cloud has been defeated, Vincent appears and whisks Cloud to safety. During their conversation, Marlene appears, having somehow escaped from Kadaj's gang. Cloud tries to explain to Marlene that there will be fighting that he has to do. But Vincent questions Cloud's motives with his words: "Cloud... you sure this is about fighting?"

Immediately after this question, a flashback from Cloud's memories is shown. It is the conversation Cloud had taken part in earlier, when the Turks informed him that the children had been taken to the Forgotten City, which Kadaj had been defiling with his presence. After an argument with Tifa, Cloud asks the Turks to rescue the children, but they refuse. Once Reno and Rude have left, Tifa turns to Cloud and asks: "Which is it, a memory or us?" Tifa is asking Cloud to choose the present (AVALANCHE, his friends, his family-- people who need him now) versus the past (the memory of Cloud's failure to protect the woman he loved and the guilt and regret it has caused him). Cloud's mind immediately focuses on Aerith as he turns away from Tifa: "But... I let you die...." he thinks to himself. The background around Cloud turns white and a gentle breeze blows through his hair. Aerith is near.

Sighing loudly, as if frustrated, Aerith teases Cloud: "Dilly dally shilly shally. Isn't it time you did the forgiving?" Aerith wishes for Cloud to forgive himself for her death.

Immediately after Cloud hears Aerith's voice in his mind, the scene switches back to the Sleeping Forest. Cloud turns to Vincent. "Are sins ever forgiven?"

Vincent ponders this for a moment, clearly understanding that Cloud is considering their "sins" to be the same. "I've never tried."

Cloud seems to have a sudden realization at hearing this, an epiphany of sorts. "You mean.... Never tried...?"

Cloud has suddenly just realized a great truth. You have to work hard to be forgiven. How can he be forgiven or forgive himself if he does nothing at all? Why would he be deserving of forgiveness if he just gives up? And he also realized that Vincent never attempted to do this for himself. Vincent has lived years and years with the burden of his sin, the fact that he feels responsible for what happened to Lucrecia all those years ago. He never attempted to earn forgiveness because he felt as if it were a just punishment for him having failed to protect the woman he loved. But... Cloud has decided to give it a try and, as he walks away with Marlene, he tells Vincent just that: "Well, I'm gonna try. I'll phone in the verdict."

Also, I would like to point out the comparison of Vincent and Cloud's "sins". Vincent considers his sin to be that he could not save Lucrecia, the woman he loved, from the evil machinations of Hojo. Cloud considers his sin to be that he failed to protect Aerith, the woman he loved, from being murdered by Sephiroth. Both of them were the bodyguards of these women. And yet they failed to protect them from their fates. That is why Cloud asks Vincent if sins are forgiven (rather than someone else).

After the scene with Vincent, Cloud's phone is shown again, slowly sinking toward the bottom of the spring at the Forgotten City. The song "Water" is playing as the phone drifts slowly downward, playing saved messages from Cloud's friends, all of which had been trying to reach him without avail-- Reeve, Barret, Yuffie, Tifa.... The phone lands in the soft silt at the bottom of the spring and Aerith's gentle voice is heard: "I never blamed you-- not once. You splooged for me. That's all that matters."

Cloud's phone then touches the bottom and stops functioning, the screen going black. But, still... there is a glimmer of light from... somewhere... We know for certain that Cloud heard Aerith's words, because, just above the spring, we see the wolf standing, gazing into the water. Slowly, it fades away. Cloud's burden of guilt is beginning to lessen.

An interesting Easter egg for Aerith is the Loveless poster which strikes Rude on the head during his fight with Loz. If you look at that poster carefully, you can see that it has Aerith's face on it. ^_^ I find this interesting because the play Loveless is about waiting for someone you love no matter how long it takes, regardless of why or how you got separated.

Later in the movie, we start to see a real change in Cloud after his encounters with Aerith. When he arrives on the scene of the battle with Bahamut Sin in Edge, Cloud tells Tifa: "I feel lighter. Maybe I lost some weight, all that dilly-dallying."

It is entirely possible that Aerith was able to start the walls crumbling down around Cloud's heart with, not only her words, but her touch. When Aerith touched Cloud's arm in the flower field, it was very reminiscent of a scene in the official novella Maiden of the Planet, where Aerith got to meet Barret's old friend, Dyne. Dyne's entire figure was covered in blood and he had been unable to be reunited with his wife, Eleanor, in the Lifestream. Aerith told Dyne that the blood bound to him was created from his guilt. Aerith touched Dyne's arm and the blood covering him began to disappear until he was completely cleansed. Aerith gave Dyne the ability to start over again and rebuild his heart. It was only after his guilt was eradicated that Dyne was able to be with Eleanor again. It was much the same way with Cloud. Cloud was unable to see Aerith's face in his first visit with her in the flower field. But, after their conversations and that gentle touch to his arm, Cloud's guilt and grief began to lessen. Cloud was beginning to forgive himself. He was healing. And, later in the movie, Cloud was finally able to see Aerith's beautiful face in its entirety. In fact, Cloud is able to see Aerith in the next ClAeris-oriented scene I am going to discuss...

The battle with Bahamut-Sin in Edge had already begun when Cloud finally arrived. The monstrous dragon was being attacked from all sides by Cloud, Barret, Yuffie, Vincent, Cid, and Red XIII (with Cait Sith). The beast finally decided it had had enough and headed skyward to unleash its Mega-Flare attack on Edge. As the dragon summon soared higher and higher, it was becoming more and more difficult for Cloud to reach it with his attacks. And so Cloud's friends all help him attempt to reach Bahamut, each one pushing him higher and higher-- Barret, Cid, Yuffie, Red XIII (with Cait Sith), Vincent, and Tifa, one-by-one, all lend their strength to Cloud's flying ascent. "No giving up!" Tifa cries after Cloud.

Cloud soars straight up at Bahamut, who unleashes a massive burst of energy. Cloud enters the energy bubble and begins to falter, slowing as he plows through the chaos of Bahamut-Sin's blast. He isn't going to make it. Suddenly, all of the clamor and turmoil disappear and Cloud is surrounded by calmness. Cloud's eyes open wide in amazement as he is surrounded by white light. Reflected in one of Cloud's wide blue eyes is the figure of Aerith, descending from the heavens, her arm outstretched. Cloud reaches toward Aerith as well and their hands meet (as they never had the chance to do at the end of FFVII), energy surrounding their hands and transferring from Aerith to Cloud, rushing up his arm. This is Aerith's Limit Break, Fury Brand.

"Ready?" Aerith asks.

Cloud bursts from the energy blast, a new fierce look upon his face, and races across Bahamut's body, performing his Climhazzard Limit Break, cleaving Bahamut-Sin in two. As Bahamut falls to the ground, destroyed, Cloud lands on a nearby girder, his face still mirroring shock and wonder. After all, it has been two years since he has seen his beloved's face. From Reunion Files:

"The ending scene of the battle with Bahamut, the scene where Aerith reaches out her hand, is homage to the last scene from a previous production. It was Tetsuya (Nomura)'s idea...." (Nojima)

Later, when Cloud is battling Kadaj in Aerith's church, Cloud is once again crippled with pain from Geostigma. Cloud is in no condition to fight and Kadaj readies a bolt of power to send down on him. However, Cloud need not worry. A surge of water rises up from a hole in the church floor and explodes into Aerith's Great Gospel Limit Break, raining its healing drops down on Cloud. A surge of water rises up against Kadaj who shrinks away from it as if it pains him, and then flees. The holy rain continues to fall upon Cloud, healing him of Geostigma, the marks upon his arm disappearing in green light. For several moments, Cloud stands quietly in the rain, gently touching his left arm, which was once afflicted with Geostigma and is now shown to have a pink ribbon tied around it in memory of Aerith. When Cloud really should be chasing down the bad guys, he stands serenely in Aerith's church, gazing out at the flooded flower bed swimming with flower petals, a look of utter contentment on his face.

But, then, the rain stops and a water droplet is shown. Aerith's gentle voice goads Cloud into action: "Let's go... Cloud."

Cloud jumps on his bike and races after Kadaj.

Later in the film, during the battle with Sephiroth, the villain summons a dark cloud forth, an anti-Lifestream made up of all of the souls who had perished from Geostigma. Aerith, however, fights back against this scourge on the planet as shown in a scene with Marlene and Denzel, who are looking out a window at Seventh Heaven. Denzel is in pain from his Geostigma and Marlene is attempting to comfort him. Suddenly, an image of Holy is shown falling into the water at the Forgotten Capital (the scene of Aerith's death). Marlene quickly turns and looks out the window: "Is it her???" A brief glimpse of Aerith's flooded church is shown, along with the image of Aerith praying at the altar of the Forgotten Capital.

Meanwhile, the battle between Sephiroth and Cloud rages on. Sephiroth, however, has noticed a change in Cloud, teasingly asking: "Oh... where did you find this strength?" Cloud refuses to answer him and the battle rages on. Later, on the rooftops, Sephiroth knocks Cloud down and impales his shoulder with his Masamune.

"Tell me what you cherish most," Sephiroth says menacingly. "Give me the pleasure of taking it away?"

Cloud reacts to Sephiroth's command to tell him what he cherishes most, and images flash through his mind. The first person Cloud thinks of is Aerith. And it isn't Aerith before she died, it is Aerith as she is now, the Aerith that is with him at present (This nullifies the argument that Cloud was thinking of those he had already lost vs. those he could lose at present; Cloud has already realized that Aerith is still with him. Why, then, would he be thinking of her as someone who was taken away?)- Cloud thinks of Aerith reaching for him during his battle with Bahamut; he thinks of when their hands were finally able to meet. The second image that races through Cloud's mind is Aerith just before her death, as she was praying on the altar at the Forgotten Capital. Does Cloud fear that Aerith, who is with him once again, will be taken away as she was before? It certainly seems that way. Since Aerith was the person Cloud thought of immediately after Sephiroth asked him what he cherished most, then I believe it is safe to assume that Aerith is the one most dear to Cloud. Cloud is thinking of those most dear to him, those who could be taken away forever.

The second person Cloud thinks of is Zack, who was his best friend. Zack sacrificed his life to protect Cloud and Cloud is remembering Zack as he was during their ride to Midgar in the back of the truck, during a time when Cloud was suffering from Mako poisoning. Clearly, Cloud cherishes the memory of his best friend a great deal as evidenced by this scene and a prior scene in AC where Cloud visits Zack's grave. Zack could also be taken away from Cloud, just as Aerith could. If they are denizens of the Lifestream, along with Sephiroth, they could be put in peril. This point is hammered home when Sephiroth summons forth a corrupt anti-Lifestream.

The fourth image to pass through Cloud's mind is Aerith again. And, just as before, it is Aerith as she is now, reaching for Cloud during the battle with Bahamut, reflected in Cloud's wide blue eyes. After all, this was the first time Cloud had been able to see Aerith's face in two years. I am sure he felt as if he was finally able to "meet her" again. And the thought of Sephiroth somehow taking Aerith from him again was probably terrifying for Cloud.

The fifth image that passes through Cloud's mind is that of Tifa, then Marlene (sixth), and then Denzel (seventh). These three are his current family. Tifa acts as a mother-figure to Marlene, Denzel, and Cloud (as confirmed more than once in CoT and RF). Marlene and Denzel are like younger siblings to Cloud (Marlene's father is Barret, of course; Denzel idolizes Cloud as his hero, like most younger brothers would do). Lastly, we see Tifa with Marlene and Denzel, from the picture on Cloud's desk.

I feel that the order of these images is very important. If one was put into a situation where they were facing death, their first and foremost thoughts would be of the one most dear to them. For Cloud, it was the woman he loved. After that, Cloud thought of his best friend. And, lastly, Cloud thought of his family. It's that simple.

After Sephiroth is defeated, he disappears in a burst of black feathers and Kadaj, wounded, falls to the ground. He stumbles into Cloud's arms and lies there, calling him "brother". Cloud looks on, concerned and saddened by the fate of Kadaj, who was merely another puppet of the will of Jenova, just like he once was.

"Kadaj?" It is the voice of Aerith.

Kadaj looks up at the sky. "Huh?"

A gentle rain begins to fall. It is Aerith's holy rain-- Great Gospel. "You don't have to hold on any longer."

"Mother!" Kadaj cries. "Is that...?" He doesn't appear to be pained by the rain anymore and, in fact, seems to revel in it.

"Everyone is waiting... if you're ready."

A tear rolls down Kadaj's face as he smiles and reaches toward the sky. Bursting into thousands of Lifestream-green lights, Kadaj fades away, up into the sky. From RF:

"Initially, the church scene was placed immediately after Sephiroth's defeat. None of the sequences with Kadaj were there, such as the scene where Kadaj feels Aerith's presence and disappears into the rain. We wanted to make Kadaj someone who also needed salvation. I'm glad that this part made it into the movie." (Nomura)

Also from RF:

"The original script didn't have the scene where Kadaj disappears and Aerith's presence is felt, but I thought they really needed to be saved from their tragic existence. I wanted to include a scene that strongly suggests they were saved in the end...." (Nomura)

After Kadaj disappears, the scene shifts to Edge. All over the city, Aerith's healing rain is curing everyone from Geostigma, from orphans in the street to Rufus Shinra himself, surrounded by his loyal Turks. All over the city, people are celebrating and smiling up into the miraculous rain.

Aboard the Shera, Cloud's friends are also celebrating. A droplet of water falls from a window on the Shera and another one forms slowly. Tifa's eyes are drawn to the droplet, the symbol of Aerith's presence. "Somehow... I knew you were there. Thank you." Tifa turns and smiles.

The camera shifts to Cloud again, who is standing in the rain with his face up, eyes closed, looking utterly content and at peace. The rain continues to fall all around him, covering him from head to foot in Aerith's healing rain. But... Cloud is already healed. So, what reason does he have to stand in the rain? Is it because of its association with Aerith? Is it because Cloud feels close to her during this moment? I believe so.

Cloud's moment of peace is interrupted, however, as he is pierced with a bullet, shot from behind him by Yazoo. Though Cloud is obviously in pain, he turns and charges the two, who prepare to attack him with their Materia. Yazoo and Loz fire energy at Cloud who meets it with sword held high. An explosion erupts and Cloud is engulfed.

The next time Cloud is seen, he is floating in a white light, eyes closed, on the brink of death. Aerith's hand appears and she gently places it on Cloud's forehead as her theme begins to play. It is obvious from this scene that Aerith is healing Cloud of his wounds. Aerith may love him and want to be with him, but she does not wish for Cloud to die in order for that to happen.

Cloud reacts to the comforting presence through his semi-conscious state: "Mother?"

"Again?" Aerith removes her hand. "Why is everyone calling me their mother lately?" Aerith's voice is tinged with amusement

"I guess they must be fond of you." It's Zack, watching over Cloud with Aerith.

"This one's a little too big to adopt," Aerith says teasingly.

"Tough luck, friend," Zack says to Cloud. "Sounds like you don't have a place here."

In this scene it is evident that Cloud's time is not yet up. Zack informs him that he doesn't have a place "here", "here" being the whitespace that he and Aerith are currently in-- the realm of the dead.

Cloud fades away from them and drops down into yet more whiteness. As he lies there, the wolf appears, walking up next to him and bowing its head. Slowly, the wolf fades away. At last, the remainder of Cloud's guilt and self-loathing has disappeared.

The moment the wolf disappears, Cloud opens his eyes. He is lying face-up in Aerith's flooded church (much as he did after he fell through the church roof in FFVII, landing in Aerith's flower bed), floating amid the flower petals, and surrounded by children, all of whom have their hands on him. Cloud gets to his feet and gazes around in surprise.

"It's like she said," a little girl with a moogle doll says. "'Wait here and Cloud will come back'."

Cloud stares at the girl in wonder and amazement.

After Cloud is reunited with his friends and heals Denzel's Geostigma with water from Aerith's holy rain, his gaze pans around the church. Nearby he spots a figure in pink, kneeling in front of two children, who are looking up at her as she speaks. It is Aerith. Cloud's eyes widen in astonishment, mixed with a little longing, as he watches Aerith rise and walk away. She is heading toward a doorway that is filled with light. Leaning against the door frame is Zack, who is watching Cloud with his arms folded.

Aerith stops just before reaching the doorway and turns to Cloud, giving the audience their first glimpse of her amazingly beautiful face "You see? Everything's... alright." She smiles at Cloud and then turns away, heading for the doorway. She moves past Zack, who waves at Cloud and then follows Aerith through the doorway. What is interesting about this scene is how much brighter and more colorful Aerith was than Zack. They were standing in the same light and yet Aerith was much more vibrant. Also, even though Aerith led the way through the door and Zack followed behind, he was the one to disappear first. Aerith's image lingered much longer.

Cloud stares after them for a moment and then a beautiful and peaceful smile appears on his face. "I know. I'm not alone... not anymore."

The Bonus Video- After the credits, there is a bonus video starring Cloud and Aerith. The song ("Calling" by Kyosuke Himuro) was picked out especially by Tetsuya Nomura, who had this to say about it:

"In the scene where it plays I'm trying to portray the message of the film and Cloud's feelings through silence and song. I think people will feel the persuasive power of the song when they view the scene."

And here are the lyrics for "Calling":

I wonder how many sleepless nights you have to count, before you find your way
After how many lives are lost, will the strife end?
Clowns that cannot be saved, just tumbling atop of history
Like someone said one day before
The answer is in the wind.

How many times does your face have to be hit as you turned it away, before you stop pretending that you don't notice?
How much pain must you endure, before you smile freely?
If you're going to accept defeat again, still bound by rusted chains
Like someone said one day before
The answer is in the wind.

With your voice strained and your hands gripping tightly
Waiting for the time when your destiny is sure to change
With the faint power of a tiny love
Always waiting for your sadness to be embraced

Pitiful frauds working their puzzle of lies
Foolish romanticists who gracefully entertain with clumsiness
The premonition of the coming of the day when history will tell you nothing
Like someone said one day before
The answer is in the wind.

With your voice strained and your hands gripping tightly
Waiting for the time when your destiny is sure to change
With the faint power of a tiny love
Always waiting for your sadness to be embraced.

The song itself has a very upbeat melody, but, as you can see, the lyrics are conflicted, mirroring hardship, pain, sorrow, love, and hope. The video itself was filmed on location in Hawaii. The scenery is real and Cloud and Aerith are interposed on top, a special treatment that no other characters in the film were given. So, yes, Cloud and Aerith have their own little music video with a song that speaks of sadness, love, and hope. A huge ClAeris hint? Methinks so. ^_^

The video starts with a view of some swirling clouds. Appropriate, no? ^_^ Then, Cloud is shown, riding Fenrir down the highway through many different locations. Aerith is then shown, standing in a field of yellow flowers. Suddenly, she turns her head, as if sensing the approach of someone. Ironically enough, the words "the answer is in the wind" are spoken right when she turns. ^_^ As Cloud rides along, yellow flowers begin appearing here and there along the roadside. As he continues on his journey, the flowers appear with greater frequency until, at last, he rides off into a huge flower field. The camera follows him no further. From Reunion Files:

"In keeping with the notion that Cloud is in the live-action world at the end, we filmed the video for the ending credits in Hawaii. There are fields of flowers on both sides of the road, and the colors- yellow and white- are the same as the flowers in Aerith's church..." (Nomura)

I believe this scene makes it crystal clear that Cloud is going to meet Aerith. Why show her in the flower field at all if Cloud was not going to meet her? It would have been pretty easy to just leave Aerith out of the video altogether. And, yet, the creators chose to include her. Why would they have done that if it was not their intention to show that Cloud has found a place where he can be with Aerith again? Aerith is shown in the live-action world, right along with Cloud, not in whitespace, as before. She is vibrant and looks, well... alive. It is my belief that the flower field has become Cloud's Promised Land, the place where he is most happy. Here, he can feel close to Aerith, perhaps even visit with her and/or see her.

After the song ends, Cloud's desk back at Seventh Heaven is shown. The first thing that catches your eye are the yellow flowers on Cloud's desk, picked from the very flower field Aerith was standing in. Behind the flowers is a picture of Cloud with all of his friends and, pushed to the side and behind this picture is the photo of Cloud looking morose with Tifa, Denzel, and Marlene. Strewn all over the desk and pinned all over the walls are pictures of the flower field. This scene makes it clear how important that flower field has become to Cloud, how often he visits the flower field, and negates any claims that Cloud is not going there to visit Aerith. Why would the flower field be so important to Cloud if Aerith wasn't there? Why would Cloud have so many pictures of the flower field if Aerith wasn't there? Why would Cloud be stopping in the flower field to pick flowers if Aerith wasn't there? Either Aerith is the one luring Cloud there or he has become obsessed with flowers. XD Which is most likely?

From Distance, the directors' commentary:

Nomura: "The words 'memetic legacy' are used a lot in the film but in AC, rather than focusing on memories we wanted to show that consciousness is what lives on. We took the ending of the game and expanded on that idea. Even if they're dead their consciousness is still with us. As for Cloud... he sees Aerith several times throughout the film. It's not that he sees her because he feels her presence. He sees her because her consciousness lives on inside him."

So, what is Nomura saying? Basically, he is saying that Aerith lives on in Cloud's heart. He is using subtle language, so as not to upset the CloTis, who make up a large part of the FFVII fandom, but, when it all boils down, he is confirming that Aerith is the one in Cloud's heart. I have followed AC since it was first announced. I remember some of the early scans that stated that Aerith was the one in Cloud's heart and that Tifa understood this. More than once, it was stated that Aerith lived on in Cloud's heart. I even remember a scan that said that Cloud's dream was to meet Aerith again. However, these heavily pro-ClAeris statements disappeared after Nomura said that he had been told not to contradict certain fan interpretations of the game. And, after that, things became much more subtle. But, as you can see from all of the scenes with Aerith, the creators still managed to portray the deep feelings and connection between Cloud and Aerith, something Cloud clearly does not have with Tifa.
 

Fairheartstrife

[no fucks given]
AKA
FHS, that cloti bitch
Uhm... I just have no words. (But, uh, thanks for the scene play by play, I guess, but I'm going to assume all of us have at least seen the movie...)

Speaking of... you followed AC, that's great. What about the game? Compilation in general, or better yet ACC? You know the film that replaced AC where scenes and music have been replaced, and where "Calling" isn't even in the Japanese version and Aerith is completely absent from the credits... Not to mention the additional Zack scenes and all that. **sigh**

In fact, have you read this thread? Or the previous one at all? Because everything you just rambled on about has already been addressed and countered with actual facts numerous times, and honestly I don't have the energy to make an essay rebuttal.

Not that I really have to. Consider compilation my rebuttal.
 
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Fairheartstrife

[no fucks given]
AKA
FHS, that cloti bitch
The universities you can book courses for over pop-up ads online don't count you stupid fangirl :awesome:

Awww, the tweenager is breaking out "fangirl" as an insult. How cute.

I'm sure she'd be more offended if the insult was at least encapsulated in a sentence structure that made sense, but I see what you were trying to accomplish, and kudos to you for trying to swing with the big kids. ;)
 

Anatoliae

Gas Mask Enthusiast
AKA
Lachlan, Ana, Aniline, Natoli

"You splooged," Aerith says, sounding happy, "even though you're about to break. Mmm?"

The phone lands in the soft silt at the bottom of the spring and Aerith's gentle voice is heard: "I never blamed you-- not once. You splooged for me. That's all that matters."

That made me laugh. Good one. :awesome:
 
Regarding my question "What do Cleriths mean when they say Aerith is your default date if you play the game normally?"
I was actually talking about this earlier in the thread.

When it comes to the date stuff, you can start getting points with Tifa when you meet her, and Aerith when you fall through the roof. Tifa gets a head start and can even pass Aerith's initial points, which start off higher (I looked it up and counted 6+, but I think Ryu said 2+, it's still in the +).

So, people always assume that since Aerith's stats start higher, that means she's the easiest date to get. The way I see it Aerith needed something to even out the fact that Tifa can take the lead before you even meet her.

The Aerith date is the one that makes sense with the story arc of her asking for the date, and you learn a lot about Aerith before she dies, but I like you got Tifa's date without trying the first time. And I liked Aerith a lot, so it wasn't because of saying the mean things to her.
 

KissTheRain

reality is a prison
AKA
jailbait
@Wolverine- I always assumined people called Aerith the default asked Cloud for one, while the others didn't until the optional scene. Although, I only learned that Aerith was the default with the numbers when I got online because I got Tifa too. /:

I remember when I played the game I just thought the playground was the date or something and CC only made me believe that more really.
 

Neutron Ronnie

From The Front of Armament
AKA
Powerslave
EDIT: To whoever originally wrote the essay above:

You obviously haven't watched Advent Children Complete, which will hurt your arguments in a lot of ways.


The importance of Aerith is established early in Advent Children.

I don't think anyone who's played Final Fantasy VII would be stupid enough to claim that Aerith is unimportant. However, her importance is not due to the fact that Cloud loved her (or didn't) - it's because her actions saved Gaia. How important she is to the story has little to do with whether Cloud is in love with her, unless you're trying to imply that the (main) hero can only fall in love with the (main) heroine.


Cloud believes that Aerith brought Denzel to him and feels a certain attachment to the boy, eventually taking him to live at Seventh Heaven.

Actually, he takes him to the Seventh Heaven right away.


. In Reunion Files, it was stated that "His inability to forgive himself has caused him to distance himself from Tifa and the others".

Yup, his inability to forgive himself. Not necessarily his love for Aerith.


During the events of AC, Cloud is living in Aerith's church and has not told anyone where he is nor has he told anyone that he is afflicted with the terminal illness, Geostigma. ... Why live in a place that reminds him of Aerith? Why not live at Seventh Heaven, which is in much better condition and isn't far away at all? Why run to a place that reminds him of the flower girl he lost when he finds out he is terminally ill? Why is it that he feels most at peace here?

He's not going to live with Tifa and the kids because they will find out he's got geostigma. He's going to die; he set out wanting to save Denzel, and he's found out he's going to die too, and is unable to help the boy or himself. It'd be tough for him to see Denzel suffering, don't you think? And how about Tifa and Marlene when they find out he's going to die? Also, he feels lower than a cockroach - he can't save himself, and he can't save his family. So he runs away from them.

Have you ever stopped to consider this: he moved into Aerith's church after he found out he was dying. To me, this reeks of guilt. If it was love, why would he wait till he was dying to return to Aerith?

That makes Cloud an asshole. "Oh, I'm in love with Aerith, but while I'm fit and happy, I'll just sit around and bang Tifa and/or have fun with my family."


It is during this scene that you catch a glimpse of Cloud's desk, cluttered with receipts. However, if you look closely to the right, you will notice a picture of a bouquet of flowers inside someone's home. During Case of Tifa, Cloud was hired by Aerith's adopted mother, Elmyra, to take flowers to Aerith's grave in the Forgotten City. This photo has to be of those flowers. It is the only explanation that makes sense. I thought it was rather sweet that Cloud wanted to keep a photo of flowers meant for Aerith. ^_^

I pulled out my copy of ACC and checked. I can't find it. Is it in AC only, or am I blind? Could you please put up a picture of it? Thanks in advance.


After that, a white light (which is later shown to be associated with Aerith) appears all around Cloud and Tifa, surrounding them both until they appear to be lying amid nothing but flowers and light. Nearby stands a wolf in the flowers which was confirmed to be a manifestation of Cloud's guilt (in this case, toward the death of Aerith). In this scene, Aerith is shown to be watching over Cloud and Tifa as she heals their wounds.

The wolf can indicate his guilt and regret in general, not just with respect to Aerith. The wolf appears outside Nibelheim where Zack died (Cloud couldn't save Zack), at the church after Tifa was beaten up (Cloud couldn't save Tifa), and at the Forgotten City, where Aerith died (Cloud couldn't save Aerith).


Again, from RF:

"I think that part of the reason we decided to have Kadaj's base in the Forgotten City is because it's the one place that Cloud avoids. But at the same time, perhaps he's drawn to it. There's a sort of hidden meaning to it, with the maternal essence of Aerith that lingers there." (Nomura)

That settles it... Cloud has an Oedipus complex. Must be the influence of Sephiroth in him.

What I don't get is why Cleriths, who are so eager to latch on to descriptions of Tifa's maternal instincts, can just blithely ignore descriptions such as the one above, and the fact that Cloud mistakes Aerith for his mother.

Which he has never done to Tifa.

Which I actually don't want to know about, if he's been in a sexual relationship with that lady.


"I think..." Cloud begins hesitantly "... I want to be forgiven. Mm... more than... anything."

"Aerith, I want to be forgiven," is what he meant. He didn't mean "Oh Aerith, I want to hump you. I want to go back to the Lifestream and be a swirly green tendril of planetplasm at your side."

The guy is beating himself up for failing the woman he was supposed to protect. Have you considered the fact that Aerith dying, when Cloud was supposed to be her bodyguard, is something solely between Cloud and Aerith? No one, not Cloud's mother, not Tifa, not Sephiroth - no one can absolve the fellow of the guilt he will feel for Aerith's death. Did you notice that what he said was that he wanted forgiveness, more than anything?

Does that spell love or guilt to you the most?

You've written a rather long description of the events in the movie, but you fail to point out exactly what indicates that Cloud is in love with Aerith. Perhaps it would serve your purpose better to be more concise next time.


Cloud's mind immediately focuses on Aerith as he turns away from Tifa: "But... I let you die...." he thinks to himself.

Yeah. Not "But... I'm in love with you..."


Also, I would like to point out the comparison of Vincent and Cloud's "sins". Vincent considers his sin to be that he could not save Lucrecia, the woman he loved, from the evil machinations of Hojo. Cloud considers his sin to be that he failed to protect Aerith, the woman he loved, from being murdered by Sephiroth. Both of them were the bodyguards of these women. And yet they failed to protect them from their fates. That is why Cloud asks Vincent if sins are forgiven (rather than someone else).

The one decent point you've made in your entire post. Though once again, perhaps you're stretching it too far - he could just be asking Vincent simply because he had the sin of failing to protect someone dear, not specifically someone he was in love with.


Slowly, it [the wolf] fades away. Cloud's burden of guilt is beginning to lessen.

It doesn't slowly fade away - it disappears all of a sudden. I don't even have to check the movie for this.


An interesting Easter egg for Aerith is the Loveless poster which strikes Rude on the head during his fight with Loz. If you look at that poster carefully, you can see that it has Aerith's face on it. ^_^ I find this interesting because the play Loveless is about waiting for someone you love no matter how long it takes, regardless of why or how you got separated.

So... why can't this indicate Aerith waiting for Zack? If anything, it points to that more than anything.


I feel that the order of these images is very important. If one was put into a situation where they were facing death, their first and foremost thoughts would be of the one most dear to them. For Cloud, it was the woman he loved. After that, Cloud thought of his best friend. And, lastly, Cloud thought of his family. It's that simple.

Well, I'm afraid to tell you, that order has been changed in ACC. He sees Aerith first, just as she's about to die, then he sees her stretching her hand out towards him, then Tifa, Marlene, Denzel, and finally, Zack.

If the original order was that important, they wouldn't have dared to mess with it. You read too much into it. It's that simple.


What is interesting about this scene is how much brighter and more colorful Aerith was than Zack. They were standing in the same light and yet Aerith was much more vibrant. Also, even though Aerith led the way through the door and Zack followed behind, he was the one to disappear first. Aerith's image lingered much longer.

In ACC, only Aerith's right shoulder is visible for about 0.5 seconds after Zack has disappeared.


The scenery is real and Cloud and Aerith are interposed on top, a special treatment that no other characters in the film were given. So, yes, Cloud and Aerith have their own little music video with a song that speaks of sadness, love, and hope. A huge ClAeris hint? Methinks so. ^_^

...

I believe this scene makes it crystal clear that Cloud is going to meet Aerith. Why show her in the flower field at all if Cloud was not going to meet her? It would have been pretty easy to just leave Aerith out of the video altogether. And, yet, the creators chose to include her. Why would they have done that if it was not their intention to show that Cloud has found a place where he can be with Aerith again? Aerith is shown in the live-action world, right along with Cloud, not in whitespace, as before. She is vibrant and looks, well... alive. It is my belief that the flower field has become Cloud's Promised Land, the place where he is most happy. Here, he can feel close to Aerith, perhaps even visit with her and/or see her.

Aerith has been removed from the credits in ACC. More emphasis is laid on Zack at the very end.


I know this is probably a joke or trolling of some sort, but I just couldn't let it pass. :P
 
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Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Funny, I remember haichi being a big raving CloTi back on ACF. So this is rather hilarious to me.
 

Neutron Ronnie

From The Front of Armament
AKA
Powerslave
Funny, I remember haichi being a big raving CloTi back on ACF. So this is rather hilarious to me.

I don't know this Haichi person, but I did consider that it might be a joke. :monster: I feel a bit silly for replying, but I'm a sucker for that kind of bait!!! T.T

Perhaps it's just an essay or something a Clerith did...

Edit: I "spied" on another forum and found the same thing. XD
 
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Bex

fresh to death
AKA
Bex
Who said CoLW isn't canon? It's most certainly canon.

And kiddo, I've taught university English classes. I'm far from being a crazed, teenage fangirl shipper. Put the mirror down.

As an English student, I'm not sure I'd listen to an English lecture from somebody who spends their nights debating the canonicity of a poorly defined possible relationship from a japanese video game.

Because everyone knows japanese games are basically the same as English Literature right?
 

Neutron Ronnie

From The Front of Armament
AKA
Powerslave
"You splooged," Aerith says, sounding happy, "even though you're about to break. Mmm?"
The phone lands in the soft silt at the bottom of the spring and Aerith's gentle voice is heard: "I never blamed you-- not once. You splooged for me. That's all that matters."

That made me laugh. Good one. :awesome:

NOW I GET IT. The point of the post. How could I have missed that? How could I have been so blind?! :D


Regarding playing the game "normally" - I think that can only be done by someone who doesn't know that Aerith is going to kick the bucket, or someone who just doesn't give a damn about that or the love triangle in any way. If I remember right, each girl gets points if they're included in the party. Furthermore, certain actions of Cloud increase affection - but only if the girl is in the party.

Lots of people I've spoken to favored other melee characters over Aerith at the very beginning, so I suppose they'd naturally keep her in the party less. I suspect this may be a reason why some of us got Tifa as Cloud's date without trying, instead of Aerith.
 
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Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
As an English student, I'm not sure I'd listen to an English lecture from som

Because everyone knows japanese games are basically the same as English Literature right?

Yeah...no one said or inferred that. At all.
 

Bex

fresh to death
AKA
Bex
No, but implying your opinion about a video game couple is worth more than someone else's just because you've taught English is ridiculous.
 

Alex

alex is dead
AKA
Alex, Ashes, Pennywise, Bill Weasley, Jack's Smirking Revenge, Sterling Archer
Yeah...no one said or inferred that. At all.

And kiddo, I've taught university English classes. I'm far from being a crazed, teenage fangirl shipper

Orly? Because with the internet superiority complex on display there its more than possible to infer that.

:awesome:
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
No, that wasn't the point. The subject was about writing style, and how someone literally accused another of pulling a style of writing (i.e. third person restricted) out of their ass, to literally defend their pairing. Because they didn't know what third person restricted was.

It had nothing to do with the pairing and everything to do about someone having no clue about writing.
 

Bex

fresh to death
AKA
Bex
Wait what, third person restrictive doesn't really have a place in this thread anywhere, who said it was relevant AT ALL?

Because they should get BLOW IT UP YOUR ASS
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
LOL whut? :monster:

It was a discussion of the style of writing of one of the novellas, and the discussion turned in that regard.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Funny, I remember haichi being a big raving CloTi back on ACF. So this is rather hilarious to me.

Either way, haichinamie I enjoyed the read. No joke, that was a good post. :joy: It was able to sum up what Cleriths think without insulting anyone (including Tifa) or being negative or anything like that. Good job

ok this has gotten way the fuck off topic..wow..cut the crap
You aren't a mod. It's better to report this kind of stuff just FYI ;)
 

Alex

alex is dead
AKA
Alex, Ashes, Pennywise, Bill Weasley, Jack's Smirking Revenge, Sterling Archer
TLS loves Third Person Restrictive

96 %

Dr. Love thinks that a relationship between TLS and Third Person Restrictive has a very good chance of being successful, but this doesn't mean that you don't have to work on the relationship. Remember that every relationship needs spending time together, talking with each other etc.

There's hope afterall!
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Is it me, or people are attacking other people really fast those days, over something utterly RIDICULOUS another one made up not so long ago?

Seriously dudes, if you can't swallow the 3rd person narrative, just avoid reading altogether and stop complaining right here. It's so freaking ridiculous I don't even know where to start.

*eyes twitching*
 
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