So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[Eerie]

Watch ACC rather than AC [AC is messy and presents Cloud as a dick, which I utterly disliked, since I'm a Cloud fan].
And no, Square doesn't let it open to interpretation. They present facts, and like adding 1+1, getting who the canon couple is shouldn't be that difficult.

Also, Yuffie is not an option because that's what's called a crack pairing. XD

@A: I knew I should have put the "regarding the Cloud/Tifa relationship with Tifa who wears the pants

Also, risqué doesn't imply rejection Even my friend who was 9 years old could get it when he played FF7 for the first time he's awesome, but he can be so scary sometimes

If Tifa is someone's lover, then she's a lover to someone she loves. With who do we see her interacting the most in FF7:AC/C? Yup, only one person, someone to whom she's important and with whom she raises children as a family. Someone she is a catalyst of; namely, Cloud

Also, A, you're too scary when you play the clerith role ;_; There's so much crap in what you wrote

 

[A]

Come now, A, if you're going to Faux Clerith, make it better. Your responses are too short. It shows you're just ignoring things or making them up. You need to offer absurd and implausible alternate explanations.

No, I wasn't ignoring or making anything up. What I typed were direct responses to what I quoted. But longer they shall be.

-Tifa is someone's lover.

Tifa is someone's lover. It can be Rude or Johnny, who have already admitted their feelings for Tifa. It can't be Cloud because in the sentence it states that Tifa is also a mother. A mother to whom? To Cloud. On the other hand, in Lifestream White, it's stated obviously that Cloud is Aerith's beloved.

-At the beginning of AC/C, Tifa is just like a woman who has been left by a man.

Tifa has been left by a man. And who is that man? Cloud? And in relationships, when a man leaves a woman, what does that mean?

Rejection.

-Tifa wears the pants in the relationship.

Just because Tifa wears the pants in the relationship does not make the pairing canon. Does Aerith need to wear the pants in the relationship as well to make Cloud and Aerith canon?

-Barret helps Cloud and Tifa to build THEIR home.

Cloud and Tifa do live together, but unless it's implied that Tifa was romantically bonded with Barret during the time that she was living with him, I doubt it should be used as proof. If Cloud and Zack were roomates, would that make them in a relationship? And how do we know that Barret doesn't live with them? What if he does?

-Tifa is an important woman to Cloud and the mother of his family [or something alike]

Tifa is the mother of his family. Cloud is never mentioned as the father. How would that make it a romantic relationship unless its been implied that Cloud and Tifa were in a role similar to one of a parent's?

-Cloud and Tifa realized their feelings during the game

They realized their feelings for each other during the game? If that's so, then why was Cloud so attached to Aerith even after the Highwind scene, where she's rejected the next morning? If Square Enix wanted to, they could have shown Tifa or Cloud kissing, or making a move. We never see that. Instead, we see Cloud longing for Aerith.

-Cloud had a crush/was in love with Tifa when they were kids

So because he had feelings for her when he was a kid automatically means that it's true love?

-Cloud wanted to become a Soldier to impress Tifa

Among other reasons. And he didn't want to join SOLDIER to impress Tifa. He wanted to join SOLDIER to impress everyone, not only Tifa. Plus, she only became interested in him after he declared that he was joining SOLDIER.

-Cloud said under the Highwind that since he was a kid, nothing had changed to Tifa

Again, how does this prove that Cloud and Tifa are canon?

-Cloud and Tifa shared a risqué scene under the Highwind

A night where the guy doesn't say anything to the girl who's basically throwing herself at him does not compute to a romantic love. On the other hand, he willingly puts himself in the conversation when he's with Aerith. Tifa's last line in the morning of the Highwind, 'just a little longer... this day will never come again,' means that she'll never have this experience with Cloud again.

-Cloud returned to Tifa and the kids at the end of AC/C

There's no confirmation that Cloud stayed with them forever. And yes, in DoC, we see Cloud with Tifa, but we never see them together at their home. SE has yet to release whether Cloud and Tifa spend the rest of their lives together. On the other hand, Aerith is engraved within Cloud's heart. She'll be within him forever.

-Cloud finds his own Promise Land at the end of AC/C

At the end of AC/C, we see Cloud smiling at Aerith. This is because he has found his Promised Land: Aerith.

-Cloud and Tifa still live together during CoD, years after

Again, there's no proof that they still live with each other during CoD.

-Cloud is like a father, Tifa is like a mother

Cloud has never been mentioned as a father. Tifa has been mentioned numerous times as a mother, and the only hint of someone stating that there was a pairing in FFVII, was Cait Sith, who said that Cloud and Aerith's stars were aligned. Also, it's been confirmed in CoT that she only thinks of him as a child, and he thinks of her as a mother, a best friend. But nothing more.

-Cloud and Tifa belong together

Cloud and Aerith grow a special bond that no one else has.

 

[Neutron Ronnie]

Cloud has never been mentioned as a father.

Cloud is implied to be like a young father to Marlene and Denzel in Case of Tifa.

On another track, I have a bit of a stupid question here...

Tifa waited for his answer, though she couldn’t hear it even if she waited until the morning.

I'm having some trouble understanding this statement. Does it mean that
a) Tifa waited for his answer, though she didn't hear one even though she waited until the morning;
b) Tifa waited for his answer (in vain, because he wouldn't have answered even if she had waited until the morning);
c) something else?

From my imperfect understanding of the English language, I took it to be (a), so please correct me if I'm wrong, and just forget what follows.

But if it is (a), then Cloud and Tifa appear to be sharing a bedroom, right?

 

[A]

@A: I knew I should have put the "regarding the Cloud/Tifa relationship with Tifa who wears the pants

Also, risqué doesn't imply rejection Even my friend who was 9 years old could get it when he played FF7 for the first time he's awesome, but he can be so scary sometimes

If Tifa is someone's lover, then she's a lover to someone she loves. With who do we see her interacting the most in FF7:AC/C? Yup, only one person, someone to whom she's important and with whom she raises children as a family. Someone she is a catalyst of; namely, Cloud

Also, A, you're too scary when you play the clerith role ;_; There's so much crap in what you wrote

It says that they have a relationship, but how is it implied that it's romantic? You can have a relationship with anyone, but it doesn't have to be romantic.

How can it be seen as risque, when there's no reaction from Cloud himself when Tifa admits to having feelings for him? To be honest, it matters more on which scene you get that directs to that.

So interacting with your best friend automatically means that he/she is your koibito? She's important to Cloud, but Aerith is important to Cloud as well. And she raises the family - but in a sense, she raises Cloud as well. He's never been mentioned as the father. Hence why she DOES wear the pants in the relationship.

But there's no one else.

 

[A]

Cloud is implied to be like a young father to Marlene and Denzel in Case of Tifa.

On another track, I have a bit of a stupid question here...



I'm having some trouble understanding this statement. Does it mean that
a) Tifa waited for his answer, though she didn't hear one even though she waited until the morning;
b) Tifa waited for his answer (in vain, because he wouldn't have answered even if she had waited until the morning);
c) something else?

From my imperfect understanding of the English language, I took it to be (a), so please correct me if I'm wrong, and just forget what follows.

But if it is (a), then Cloud and Tifa appear to be sharing a bedroom, right?

In my opinion, it seems that she knew that she wouldn't be getting an answer.

Even if she waited all night.

 

[Neutron Ronnie]

In my opinion, it seems that she knew that she wouldn't be getting an answer.

Even if she waited all night.

I think what I'm driving at is "Where was she waiting?"

 

[Isabella]

As an English student, I'm not sure I'd listen to an English lecture from somebody who spends their nights debating the canonicity of a poorly defined possible relationship from a japanese video game.

Because everyone knows japanese games are basically the same as English Literature right?

As an English student, it's a shame you don't know enough to consider the context in which a statement was made.

@powerslave: That whole sequence reads like they're sharing a room. Cloud shows no surprise at seeing her in there with him.

 

[A]

I think what I'm driving at is "Where was she waiting?"

They don't bother to mention that she left Cloud's room. And like Isabella said, Cloud shows no surprise at seeing her. Seems like they're sharing a room.

 

[Neutron Ronnie]

Well, it does say he woke up with "a perplexed look on his face," but I'm not sure if that's because he was just out of it, being woken up all of a sudden, or whether it's because he was wondering what Tifa was doing in the room.

 

[A]

Well, it does say he woke up with "a perplexed look on his face," but I'm not sure if that's because he was just out of it, being woken up all of a sudden, or whether it's because he was wondering what Tifa was doing in the room.

Wasn't that after she asked him whether or not he loved her? He probably couldn't hear what she was saying because he was waking up from sleep. Or maybe it's just that he was surprised to see her watching him.

 

[Vendel]

I think what I'm driving at is "Where was she waiting?"

Aw shit. Time to bust out my handy visual aids.

I posted these a while back. But that was in the old thread.

Now here we have what I would consider a rational way that scene plays out.

Spoiler

Wow that is like totally plausible and normal.

It doesn't require Tifa to go into Clouds room when he is sleeping. Start talking to him thus waking him up. Then just hovering there over him as he goes back to sleep in an awkward silence.

But let us just imagine that shall we?

Spoiler

I report. You decide.

 

[Raquelborn]

Well, it does say he woke up with "a perplexed look on his face," but I'm not sure if that's because he was just out of it, being woken up all of a sudden, or whether it's because he was wondering what Tifa was doing in the room.

I took it as him hearing her question in that half-asleep dreaming state (when you're aware of what someone has said to you but not entirely) but hearing such a significant/emotional question made him wake up and wonder if that was really what she had said. Ergo, the perplexed look after waking up, after having heard her question.

If he was wondering what she was doing watching/talking to him as he slept then it would of been a look of surprise or 'wtf' instead. Especially if they sleep in different rooms.

 

[Neutron Ronnie]

Aw shit. Time to bust out my handy visual aids.

I posted these a while back. But that was in the old thread.

Now here we have what I would consider a rational way that scene plays out.

Spoiler

Wow that is like totally plausible and normal.

It doesn't require Tifa to go into Clouds room when he is sleeping. Start talking to him thus waking him up. Then just hovering there over him as he goes back to sleep in an awkward silence.

But let us just imagine that shall we?

Spoiler

I report. You decide.

LMFAO, thank you for this! f'kin hilarious. I missed it on the old thread, I didn't even know it'd been brough up - sorry.

I hope you realize that I agree with your first scenario, though... As for YOUR depiction of scenario 2, it's just plain creepy. If I was Cloud, I'd wake up screaming, I think. XD

I took it as him hearing her question in that half-asleep dreaming state (when you're aware of what someone has said to you but not entirely) but hearing such a significant/emotional question made him wake up and wonder if that was really what she had said. Ergo, the perplexed look after waking up, after having heard her question.

If he was wondering what she was doing watching/talking to him as he slept then it would of been a look of surprise or 'wtf' instead. Especially if they sleep in different rooms.

Me too. I just brought it up because I wanted to point out that if they were sharing a room, it'd be another nail in the Clerith coffin, but apparently the issue's been discussed before. My bad.

 

[Eerie]

I always thought that he did hear her and that the following convo about Marlene was not so much about Marlene rather than Cloud and Tifa.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Hmm, I think I know what she is getting at. I believe (and I could be wrong) she is trying to convey the thought that just because one person (Tifa) loves someone else (Cloud) does not mean the person he or she likes should like them back.

Except that the RF snippet is not from Tifa’s POV. It is the creator’s description of Tifa’s role within the FFVII universe. It is a statement of fact, not limited by Tifa’s pov.

Like Alice said Johnny, Rude, Barret, Vincent, Cid, Don C., or Cloud if you think that way.

What are you talking about? Why would it be Johnny? The staff have specifically told you it’s unrequited. Same with Rude. Tifa loves Cloud. She is living with Cloud. Raising kids with Cloud. It is said by the writer they belong together. They made sure that Cloud and Tifa complemented each other, not Tifa and Johnny, or Tifa and Rude, or Tifa and Joe Nobody.

Why would they be talking about Tifa’s place in FFVII in reference to Johnny? Johnny isn’t even a prominent character who needs a mention in the character profiles.

This is ridiculous and you are grasping for them straws too hard.

Just because thats the reason you've made up fo it to not be Canon, doesn't make it true, I have no clue how long you people sat here making that into a reason

STOP THE PRESSES!!!!! Just because that’s the reason scientists have come up with for the whole earth around the sun crap, doesn’t make it RIGHT. LMAO! LMAO!
It is not the reason we came up with. Just because you do not have any knowledge of narrative modes does not invalidate the FACT that CoL:W is written from a particular POV.

If you don't like that fact, take it up with the writers, but I hear they didn't give a shit about your opinion when you sent hatemail and raged when Aeris died. She's still not back.

However, these predictions are rarely correct, and his skill at telling the future is dubious.

Of course he knows jack shit. He is a sockpuppet for Reeve – someone who is not a fortune teller. Don’t people understand this?
The reason he knows his shit in BC is because Reeve is because his field is urban development and he designed the Mako reactors. No fortune telling involved.

No, that wasn't the point. The subject was about writing style, and how someone literally accused another of pulling a style of writing (i.e. third person restricted) out of their ass, to literally defend their pairing. Because they didn't know what third person restricted was.

QFT and because it needs to be emphasized. Again.

 

[Raquelborn]

I always thought that he did hear her and that the following convo about Marlene was not so much about Marlene rather than Cloud and Tifa.

Agreed. It explains why Cloud "don't know how to approach her." Tifa is the one he'd approach over anything, before Marlene at any rate. The hint is also just very strong in the way that the conversation is structured.

Afterall, why is it significant to the story that Cloud loves Marlene and can't approach her if that's really what Nojima wanted to bring across. It feels more like he's subtly pushing the current status of Cloud and Tifa's relationship on the reader, he loves her but can't approach her about his problems. The latter also makes more sense when considering the plot and 'argument' scene in AC/C.

 

[Eerie]

My point, explained way better XD

It also explains Cloud's perplexed face: it looks like he doesn't understand why she would ask something so obvious - to him, at least. I mean, to him, she's always held his heart, and they already confessed - yet she asks something like this.

It flows quite naturally with the 'I love her you but sometimes I don't know how to approach her you'.

Sorry if I make only little sense, I'm getting quite tired x___x

 

[Dashell]

square doesn't give two shits about the love triangle and prefers to have the fans have a ridiculous 13-year old flame war about it that will never ever reach a conclusion

I know this guy... Tama, no trolling please?



Doesn't look like anything else is new.. Those were good responses though A, I'm impressed

 

[Ryushikaze]

I know this guy... Tama, no trolling please?



Doesn't look like anything else is new.. Those were good responses though A, I'm impressed

Problem is, all her responses are canned, and wrong, if you at all think beyond a single scene at once.

For example, her response 'How does nothing changing from when he was young mean Cloti?' fails to recall that Cloud falls dimly in love with Tifa before leaving for SOLDIER. That is what hasn't changed.

Her 'rejection is risque' response is, well, just plain asinine, as there is absolutely nothing risque about telling a woman no. In fact, the definition of risque, while we're on the subject, is pretty much restricted to things dealing with or implying physical intimacy or the like.

In short, A is employing- in her assumed role- a debating 'tactic' best called the Wall of Ignorance.

 

[Makoeyes987]

No Ryu. Don't use that word "dimly" in terms of falling in love. Please

 

[Reith123]

thats like saying the lights in the hall are dimly lit when they are clearly bright as hell.

 

[Madame Mayor]

Agreed. It explains why Cloud "don't know how to approach her." Tifa is the one he'd approach over anything, before Marlene at any rate. The hint is also just very strong in the way that the conversation is structured.

Afterall, why is it significant to the story that Cloud loves Marlene and can't approach her if that's really what Nojima wanted to bring across. It feels more like he's subtly pushing the current status of Cloud and Tifa's relationship on the reader, he loves her but can't approach her about his problems. The latter also makes more sense when considering the plot and 'argument' scene in AC/C.

I've never heard this interpretation of that line before, but I like it a lot. I do think that he honestly didn't hear her, but that the conversation could be the author giving us a wink saying, "Doesn't this sound like..."

At the end of the day, Tifa was in Cloud's bed, talking to him at night, and was still in bed with him in the morning. This wasn't made to be weird or out of the ordinary, so we assume it is ordinary.

 

[Dashell]

I meant she did a "good" job mimicking the Clerith responses. I gotta start making my posts more clear obviously

No Ryu. Don't use that word "dimly" in terms of falling in love. Please

Ryu

 

[Fairheartstrife]

For that scene to be weird it would have to be Tifa stalking into Cloud's bedroom while he's sleeping and start talking. **pictures Gargoyle Tifa at the end of the bed**

I took the scene as both of them lying in bed and her just blurting it out as the doubts became too much. And Cloud's dubious expression is understandable.

Hell, I still ask Robin if he loves me--and we've been together 11 years. It's a normal thing through rough patches.

 

[Ryushikaze]

No Ryu. Don't use that word "dimly" in terms of falling in love. Please

I'm playing the game where I grant them several 'concessions' and fight from there, Mako. Dun worry.

I meant she did a "good" job mimicking the Clerith responses. I gotta start making my posts more clear obviously

Oh, no, I agree, they are good C/A responses. I just want to clarify those responses are excellent examples of subpar logic.

Ryu

I should be more clear in the future.