So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[KissTheRain]

He laughs at with her. Duh.

Hey I think that was the marking point for Tuna's canonz proof so we have got some stable evidence now.

 

[Vendel]

Yes. And how the beginning of the game tricks you into thinking Tifa was the one with the crush in childhood, pushing a promise on a poor guy who has no interest. It's not until the LS that you learn the situation was flipped.

I wouldn't say Tifa had no interest. In fact once Cloud actually talks to her she seems to be rather interested indeed.

 

[Isabella]

I wouldn't say Tifa had no interest. In fact once Cloud actually talks to her she seems to be rather interested indeed.

Agreed. I just meant that Cloud was the one gaga in love in that flashback, but you wouldn't know it because he's acting cold and walking out at the time we first see it.

 

[Madame Mayor]

But the fact that you are suppose to fall for it, and many people do, shows that maybe there was something there beyond platonic. It just was stopped in its tracks before it could develop.

The problem is it's stopped before Cloud ever shows romantic interest though. Just because they are being set up as a two people who might fall in love, it doesn't mean they got to the point where we were seeing any of that.

We see Aerith showing interest in him, but him not showing it back. However, she's set up to look like the love interest, so we wait to see when she'll finally melt his heart. Then she starts to talk about not knowing him at all, leaves the group... and dies. This is the point where you are suppose to realize all that was never anything more than a way to make Aerith's death mean more to the player.

They don't leave you hanging either, show where Cloud actually does have romantic interest, being Tifa. We also see that Cloud was acting like Aerith's old boyfriend who died, which makes me wonder why Clerii crazies even exist, because she doesn't 'lose' to Tifa. We don't even know if Aerith would fall in love with the 'real' Cloud.

But I guess being a secondary character's main love interest isn't good enough... even if he's way more awesome than Cloud.

 

[A]

Hey I think that was the marking point for Tuna's canonz proof so we have got some stable evidence now.

Sure, just as Zack and Cloud are for doing the same thing.

 

[KissTheRain]

Sure, just as Zack and Cloud are for doing the same thing.

You remember the jokes when they met and that was only the first day of meeting!

 

[A]

You remember the jokes when they met and that was only the first day of meeting!

Now that is true love.

 

[Celes Chere]

Hey I think that was the marking point for Tuna's canonz proof so we have got some stable evidence now.

If I recall correctly, Tidus wasn't being mind fucked when he laughed with Yuna. There's the difference.

 

[Vendel]

They don't leave you hanging either, show where Cloud actually does have romantic interest, being Tifa. We also see that Cloud was acting like Aerith's old boyfriend who died, which makes me wonder why Clerii crazies even exist, because she doesn't 'lose' to Tifa. We don't even know if Aerith would fall in love with the 'real' Cloud.

Well this is where you have the "Aerith fell in love with the real Cloud because....well just because. And she was totally over Zack. And that whole multiple personality thing...overblown. etc etc etc etc"

Just ask Zee.

 

[Isabella]

Why would they make Zack, the guy Cloud's mimicking, be Aerith's long lost boyfriend? It wasn't necessary to the plot if Aerith was loving Cloud for Cloud. The story easily could've been told without that detail.

 

[Vendel]

Why would they make Zack, the guy Cloud's mimicking, be Aerith's long lost boyfriend? It wasn't necessary to the plot if Aerith was loving Cloud for Cloud. The story easily could've been told without that detail.

I have no fucking clue. I am just telling you how some people think.


Besides. It's all in the past. Right hito?

 

[KissTheRain]

If I recall correctly, Tidus wasn't being mind fucked when he laughed with Yuna. There's the difference.

Neh thanks for ruining my ideas. D:

Hehe, anyways Tidus is always fucked up and probably horny so does it exclude his feelings, hmm?

 

[Dashell]

Yeah Tidus is fucked up enough. He doesn't need Jenova cells to be mind fucked.

 

[Tennyo]

Point is though that Tidus wasn't being mind fucked like that, your opinions on his character aside...

Red herrings, folks. So many people thought Cloud was going to end up with Aerith because it was set up that way.

Not good enough. Do you have any idea how many times I've said exactly this and no one cared?

 

[The White Queen]

I'm not sure how there are so many more pages but I cannot read them all, my apologies. I did skim through a few pages though, reading the posts that had points. I notice everyone declaring what kind of writing style Case Of Lifestream: White is, that I cannot speak on, but even if it was what you said -which I'll trust you on- Aerith still declared Cloud as her boyfriend or lover. A boyfriend or lover cannot be one sided. To call someone your boyfriend or lover the other person has to make it clear that they return the same feelings, right? Right. So even if it is the third person narrative, Aerith still declared a known fact, that Cloud is her friend and her lover/boyfriend/beloved/sweetheart. And a lover/koibito cannot be one sided. You cannot really compare the two girls koibito statements, they are really very much different. From what is being discussed here, Aerith's is of third person narrative, stating that Cloud is her koibito. As to Tifa's statement saying she is like a koibito/sweetheart -even though it is never stated to whom Tifa's a koibito to.- Only that she is like a sweetheart. It never mentioned a name -which would have been very helpful if it did- Unlike Tifa's koibito statement, Aerith's statement is made very clear, there's no doubt in who her koibito is as to Tifa's which leaves it up for debate. The only thing people can debate about while discussing Aerith's koibito statement is how or what way the story is written. And quite frankly I do not think that even matters anymore because Aerith still states a fact that Cloud is her lover. And like we hopefully established in the beginning of my post, the word lover cannot be used if the other does not feel the same. By the way, I Am Not Me, thank you for the welcome. Oh, and one more thing. They put Zack in FFVII as Aerith's first crush because it adds to the love story. I see a lot of Japanese movies/shows/books that always have a past relationship that adds some kind of drama to the story. And for Cloud he was jealous any time Aerith spoke of Zack. Sorry I cannot speak on more.

 

[Strangelove]

Not good enough. Do you have any idea how many times I've said exactly this and no one cared?

There's your problem.

Besides. It's all in the past. Right hito?

In shops soon. Buy 5 copies.

 

[Eerie]

Reverse logic FTW

Aerith says that Cloud was her beloved - basically. It happens, in 3rd person views, because their views are skewed, that they can use the wrong word to describe someone. So, it doesn't mean that Cloud was her lover - point is, Ultimania saying that in Disc One, Cloud was wiser to neither Aerith or Tifa - but that Cloud was someone she loved. Which isn't... something really new.

Meanwhile, the creators stated that Tifa was someone's lover in AC/C, that IS her role. With who does she have the most interactions? Who is she a catalyst to? Who is her ideal man? That is Cloud. The man with who she raises a family AND lives, and who returns to her and the kids, his Promise Land, at the end of the movie.
Other men? Johnny? He isn't even here. Rude? Interactions: none. Barret? Hahaha, don't make me laugh. XD
There's only one possible reply and connecting the dots isn't that difficult.

 

[Strangelove]

Sorry, but calling someone a 'koibito' in kanji isn't romantic at all.

I know it because I read it on the internet.

 

[Madame Mayor]

there's no doubt in who her koibito is as to Tifa's which leaves it up for debate.

You say it's up for debate, yet no one has ever provided any EVIDENCE to show who Tifa is a koibito to besides Cloud. Show us proof that she's making out with Johnny or Rude on the side and then we'll consider it 'up for debate'.

 

[Reith123]

well syneiam that last paragraph is win

 

[Ryushikaze]

I'm not sure how there are so many more pages but I cannot read them all, my apologies. I did skim through a few pages though, reading the posts that had points. I notice everyone declaring what kind of writing style Case Of Lifestream: White is, that I cannot speak on, but even if it was what you said -which I'll trust you on- Aerith still declared Cloud as her boyfriend or lover. A boyfriend or lover cannot be one sided. To call someone your boyfriend or lover the other person has to make it clear that they return the same feelings, right? Right. So even if it is the third person narrative, Aerith still declared a known fact, that Cloud is her friend and her lover/boyfriend/beloved/sweetheart. And a lover/koibito cannot be one sided.

You are my girlfriend.

In four words, I have negated your claim that 'To call someone your boyfriend or lover the other person has to make it clear that they return the same feelings, right?'

You cannot really compare the two girls koibito statements, they are really very much different. From what is being discussed here, Aerith's is of third person narrative, stating that Cloud is her koibito.

Third person limited, which is essentially the same as a first person narration.

As to Tifa's statement saying she is like a koibito/sweetheart -even though it is never stated to whom Tifa's a koibito to.- Only that she is like a sweetheart.

Not like, IS. There is no 'like/noyou' in the japanese segment containing koibito.
And we don't need that one quote to tell us who she's a koibito to, because we have other quotes telling us Cloud is her love interest, she is an important woman to Cloud, they belong together, he is happy with her, etc. etc. etc.

It never mentioned a name -which would have been very helpful if it did- Unlike Tifa's koibito statement, Aerith's statement is made very clear, there's no doubt in who her koibito is as to Tifa's which leaves it up for debate.

You mean 'the woman's statement is made very clear, there's no doubt in who her koibito is.' Remember, COLW and COLB don't specify who they are about, so if we can't be sure who Tifa is a Koibito to, we can't be sure if the woman is Aerith, or Jessie, or Ilfana, or Scarlet, or any other woman we've met before.
Also, you seem to be missing one or more words around 'is as to.' Compared, perhaps?

The only thing people can debate about while discussing Aerith's koibito statement is how or what way the story is written.

No, we can argue time period, tense of statement, and who 'woman' is.

And quite frankly I do not think that even matters anymore because Aerith still states a fact that Cloud is her lover.

1. Her private thoughts are not automatically fact.
2. WAS. PAST TENSE.

And like we hopefully established in the beginning of my post, the word lover cannot be used if the other does not feel the same.

Yes it can, Lover. But let's not let all the examples of people calling folks that did not reciprocate their feelings their koibito/ lover get in our way, shall we?

By the way, I Am Not Me, thank you for the welcome. Oh, and one more thing. They put Zack in FFVII as Aerith's first crush because it adds to the love story.

The way they did so is entirely counter-intuitive to such, especially with the heavy focus on such in CC and the statement that Aerith acts towards Cloud the way she does because of her feelings for Zack.

I see a lot of Japanese movies/shows/books that always have a past relationship that adds some kind of drama to the story. And for Cloud he was jealous any time Aerith spoke of Zack. Sorry I cannot speak on more.

ANY time? You had the option, once, to select 'jealous, envious', to lead to a single dialogue option.

Further on the subject of Koibito, I once again reiterate that it can also be used to refer to someone's beloved, as in the object of their affection- which is, given the context surrounding 'Woman's' statements, the only truly 'accurate' localization. And even if we apply that same standard to the RF Koibito quote, we still have a creator's extrauniversal statement that one of Tifa's roles in the world is that of someone's beloved, and simple parsimony takes over there.

 

[Neutron Ronnie]

And for Cloud he was jealous any time Aerith spoke of Zack.

White Queen, you do realize that the player can choose whether Cloud is indifferent or jealous when Aerith mentions Zack? So you can't just say "Cloud was jealous any time Aerith spoke of Zack." I also don't recollect Cloud being jealous when Aerith talks about Zack at the children's park under Midgar.

And Cloud isn't the only person we should be considering - what about Aerith?

And have you ever played Crisis Core? If you have - have you wondered why the creators of the game bothered to put so much effort into showing parallels between Zack's meeting with Aerith, and Cloud's meeting with her?

The Ultimania or some other book states that Zack is always by Aerith's side. Always. In the Lifestream. We've covered all this before but you probably didn't see it.

Forget Cloud and Aerith. Forget Cloud and Tifa. I think there's more than enough evidence and hints of Zerith going on, before, and right now, in the Lifestream. There can be no Clerith if Aerith herself is with someone else, or has no interest in Cloud, right?

 

[A]

Aerith still declared Cloud as her boyfriend or lover. A boyfriend or lover cannot be one sided.

I declare that you are my girlfriend.

Does that make me your girlfriend? No, it doesn't. The same works with Aerith and Cloud. Just because Aerith declared Cloud as her lover doesn't make him her lover. Aerith may consider Cloud as her boyfriend, but why assume that Cloud feels the same way? Her thoughts about Cloud does not make it a fact. It's not Square Enix talking - it's Aerith.

I honestly don't understand how you can't get that. Aerith and Cloud don't share the same minds. They're both different people.

 

[KissTheRain]

Aerith may consider Cloud as her boyfriend, but why assume that Cloud feels the same way?

Wouldn't it be odd if you were dating someone and they didn't think you were? Lol, that's really quite creepy imo. XD And anyway isn't the word supposed to be "beloved" not "loved" meaning Aerith loves Cloud, but is not dating him. It is more likely for love to one sided not a relationship. I would agree that Aerith loves Cloud, but I don't think they are/were dating even if they love eachother.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Wouldn't it be odd if you were dating someone and they didn't think you were? Lol, that's really quite creepy imo. XD And anyway isn't the word supposed to be "beloved" not "loved" meaning Aerith loves Cloud, but is not dating him. It is more likely for love to one sided not a relationship. I would agree that Aerith loves Cloud, but I don't think they are/were dating even if they love eachother.

That's kind of the point. Cloud and Aerith were not dating/ a couple when she was alive because he was oblivious of her intentions. Hence, the 'boyfriend/ lover' reading of koibito makes no real sense in context, but the 'beloved' one does.