So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[KissTheRain]

That's kind of the point. Cloud and Aerith were not dating/ a couple when she was alive because he was oblivious of her intentions. Hence, the 'boyfriend/ lover' reading of koibito makes no real sense in context, but the 'beloved' one does.

And just to piss you off, I think the beloved is mutual. Aerith loves Cloud and he loves her back, but still I don't think they were dating. They never had time to pursue a relationship and I suppose never will they can only love eachother because of Aerith's condition. /:

 

[Ryushikaze]

And just to piss you off, I think the beloved is mutual. Aerith loves Cloud and he loves her back, but still I don't think they were dating. They never had time to pursue a relationship and I suppose never will they can only love eachother because of Aerith's condition. /:

So, where are the indicators that he romantically loves her back? I keep asking, but people keep failing to give examples.

 

[Makoeyes987]

So, where are the indicators that he romantically loves her back?

That's the million dollar question. It keeps getting asked and literally, nobody answers.

 

[Strangelove]

http://thelifestream.net/final-fant...o-13-of-the-ffvii-10th-anniversary-ultimania/

And having 2 heroines, Aerith and Tifa, and having the hero waver between them, at the time that was something new.

'Wavering between them' sounds like there could be interest in both there.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yeah, but under who's influence was Cloud under during his time with Aerith, Mr. "Hito -Conveniently Quoting the Ultimania-shura?"

 

[KissTheRain]

So, where are the indicators that he romantically loves her back? I keep asking, but people keep failing to give examples.

Well honestly i'll say it is more my interpretation, but i'll take a swing at proving it.

"Two years after returning to the planet, Aerith still lives on in the hearts of her friends who saved the planet. And in particular to Cloud, as a symbol of his failure to having being unable protect those dear to him, she was a major factor in causing him to close himself off."

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dear

So most of the time dear means something along the lines of love from what i've heard/seen/read. Brownie points, yus?

 

[A]

"Two years after returning to the planet, Aerith still lives on in the hearts of her friends who saved the planet. And in particular to Cloud, as a symbol of his failure to having being unable protect those dear to him, she was a major factor in causing him to close himself off."

You're forgetting that Aerith is a symbol of Cloud not being able to protect THOSE dear to him. It's not only Aerith they're talking about.
















And might I mention that Tifa is Cloud's catalyst? His reason for fighting?

 

[KissTheRain]

THOSE dear to him.

So Zack gets mutual love too, what's wrong with that.

And might I mention that Tifa is a catalyst to Cloud?

And the kids hun, and the kids.

 

[A]

So Zack gets mutual love too, what's wrong with that.



And the kids hun, and the kids.

Threesome then?

Sure, but not as far as the official quote says:

She gives encouragement to Cloud, who is unable to shake off his doubts, and creates the catalyst for him to regain the will to fight.

 

[KissTheRain]

Threesome then?

Aww yes, but scratch out Zack and put in Tifa..yessss...<333

She gives encouragement to Cloud, who is unable to shake off his doubts, and creates the catalyst for him to regain the will to fight.

Romance?

 

[Ryushikaze]

Well honestly i'll say it is more my interpretation, but i'll take a swing at proving it.

"Two years after returning to the planet, Aerith still lives on in the hearts of her friends who saved the planet. And in particular to Cloud, as a symbol of his failure to having being unable protect those dear to him, she was a major factor in causing him to close himself off."

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dear

So most of the time dear means something along the lines of love from what i've heard/seen/read. Brownie points, yus?

Generally, in the plural it means more filial rather than romantic (my dears as opposed to my dear), especially since in this case, it also represents his failure to protect Zack, his current perceived inability to protect Tifa and the kids, etc.
I'm not saying it excludes the romantic, but in this case, it is not direct evidence thereof.

@Hito, if it does, then it applies to both ladies again, which sort of gets us back into the whole 'how big is that pile' issue.

 

[Eerie]

Aww yes, but scratch out Zack and put in Tifa..yessss...<333


Romance?

You know, just like the HW scene was necessary to Cloud to find the strength to beat Sephiroth

 

[Celes Chere]

Aerith still declared Cloud as her boyfriend or lover. A boyfriend or lover cannot be one sided.

Aerith declared how SHE felt. There is no statement saying how Cloud feels towards Aerith that's more than friendly. Just like in Maiden, Aerith stated that she loved Cloud and then Zack appeared. While there is a severe lack of Zack in COL, there is also no time-line. I'd consider it safe to assume that Aerith states this before she awakens Zack considering he isn't mentioned at that point, but it's made very clear that he is always by her side and is important to her- There are multiple quotes saying that Zack and Aerith is an eternal bond. These are solid! There are no solid quotes stating that Aerith and Cloud have a romantic relationship, and that it's unbreakable.

Tifa's which leaves it up for debate.

Tifa's statement is not up for debate at all. We know there is one man she has loved her whole life, and that Cloud opened his heart to Tifa and had a crush on her since childhood. (A crush that was never proven to fade) There is no-one else for it to be besides Cloud. Why would Tifa be a Koibito to Johnny or Rude, when she doesn't love them back and they are rarely mentioned?

I think there's more than enough evidence and hints of Zerith going on, before, and right now, in the Lifestream.

Agreed. Anyone arguing against Zerith needs to dictionary words such as destiny and relationship. Might as well google up intimate and inseperable as well.

Hey KTR... that quote kind of pales in comparison to Cloud starting a new life with Tifa, saying he'll be okay as long as she's by his side, opening his heart to her and only her, and saying that it's only her opinion that matters.



And thanking her especially above everyone else in the game- including Aerith.

 

[Ryushikaze]

There's a reason the 'only ever opened his heart up to Tifa' quote from prologue is so damning. It means he never opened it up to Aerith. It means Aerith doesn't know him best as is claimed. It also means Tifa does know him best, unlike certain (often self contradictory) claims to the contrary.

And it goes so well with everything else.

 

[paoo]

Today I saw a magazine with ACC Cloud as the cover, and I got tempted and buyed it. And it was alot about FF7 too, so I thought it would be interesting to read. And well... I'm not surprised, but Aerith was called Cloud's lover all the time. And only pictures of their meeting in the church, Aerith's death etc. And no mention of Tifa. And yes, those guys who wrote that have played the game. But I did wonder if they had.. Uh, anyway. I got pissed that they are so misleaded, and now they will probably mislead alot of others too.

I did alot of facepalms during that time.

 

[A]

What magazine is this xAerith?

 

[paoo]

It's called Level. I dunno if it exists anywhere else..?

 

[Celes Chere]

Well xAerith just remember that the Ultimania > random opinionated magazine.

 

[Eerie]

Don't worry though you'll see it soon taken as ultimate proof just like that US ads

@Ryu: even if we do have to pile up evidences pro-Aerith and pro-Tifa, the pro-Tifa evidences pile up much, much higher. And ultimately, even if kept wavering between the two, that was only during Disc One - thanks to the player - which means, with the ZaCloud personality. On one hand, they say Cloud is wavering between the two girls, but on the other hand, they also say that Cloud is wiser to none; I think in itself that it shows pretty much that this is the player who's at work there. He can chose either girl or none - or both.

If anything, Cloud - the true one that emerges later in the story - has been showed being all about Tifa. In the end, what counts? It's not saying that Aerith isn't important - she is damn important and damn dear to all of them. Aerith symbolizes his failures, Tifa symbolizes his accomplishments. And if he fails Tifa, he will also be riled by guilt and sense of worthlessness - but Tifa can ultimately pull him out of his mood when he truly needs it.

Looking back at it and putting Aerith's POV in perspective in CoLW, if she talks like this in the past and seeing how she 'tags' him, it makes me feel that her feelings are far more dilute than what they used to be in the game; he STILL is very dear and important to her, just like she is dear and important to him - but I feel that, if you think that there might have been something going on during FFVII, then it totally changed into something else. Aerith gives him those motherly feelings [I always felt that the "Mother" in AC/C was kind of the ice of the cake], but she herself looks out for him worriedly.
Maybe there's still love from her - but it's not like it used to be, it's like a very fond love for someone who messes up often and who worries us.

Bah, I babblered too much once again

 

[Makoeyes987]

I see the magazine being used as a more...

"Look! A magazine was able to see the truth...why can't the rapid Cloti's?!?!! It's soooo OBVIOUS!!!!!!1"

 

[paoo]

I see the magazine being used as a more...

"Look! A magazine was able to see the truth...why can't the rapid Cloti's?!?!! It's soooo OBVIOUS!!!!!!1"

Yeah, and why can't SE see the truth?! They just keep giving us fake Cloti proofs all the time. They must be lying!!123

 

[Makoeyes987]

Obviously, S-E is deluding themselves. The creators are wankers. If a magazine articles and a bunch of fans say it's Clerith, then it's Clerith.

 

[Celes Chere]

:clerith:

*nods*

Also, Cloud and Tifa are next to each other on this page! And we all know that means love.

Spoiler

 

[Strangelove]

Yeah, but under who's influence was Cloud under during his time with Aerith, Mr. "Hito -Conveniently Quoting the Ultimania-shura?"

Are you saying Jenova wanted to get it on with Aerith?

Because after seeing your zombie lust, I no longer think it's an unreasonable assumption to make about you

I don't deny Jenova's there, just that it doesn't necessarily mean everything from that point is completely meaningless. Otherwise Tifa's attitude matters more than anyone elses to Jenova I don't think 'lover' works for the game itself, but I could support them still having feelings for each other.

Or the other interpretation of the whole line from LSW, since it is a full sentence and not just half a sentence or one word

 

[Makoeyes987]

It's more like Jenova putting Zack's hard on in Cloud's pocket along with his other mannerisms

But hey, I wouldn't be surprised if Jenova swung that way too.

I just don't see how you can hold the words of the guy's who's thoughts and actions aren't fully his own as concrete evidence of a romance. I'm not gonna deny there was potential. Cleary Nojima commented and referenced it. But again...notice how he spoke of it as a hypothetical. It never happened. It's unrealized potential that merely served as a plot red herring in the original game.