So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

Who does Cloud love?

  • Aerith

    Votes: 20 14.2%
  • Tifa

    Votes: 121 85.8%

  • Total voters
    141
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Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
I never said anything happened/it was based on non-crazy standards, just that I could accept the potential :monster:

Also, Cloud and Tifa are next to each other on this page! And we all know that means love. :D
ctha.jpg
There's Red XIII between them.

Didn't you see those Amano pictures? Shit is SO canon.
 

Isabella

Your Mom
Certainly there was potential, but when did potential cross the line into Eternal Love Beyond Death? C/A involves jumping from point A to point Z and leaving out a whole lotta in-between.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Potential huh?

Okay, maybe Cloud had a masturbatory fantasy or two regarding Aerith post-Lifestream event, but I mean...really. That doesn't mean he's madly in love with her. He just likes variety! :wacky:
 

Celes Chere

Banned
AKA
Noctis
There's Red XIII between them.

Ah, but on the contrary Tifa is on the left side(corner) of Cloud. My scanner couldn't fit the entire page, lol.
And what about here?!

cthahsa.jpg
 
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Isabella

Your Mom
I think it's hard to argue against ~potential~, since the player is given the option to prefer Aerith on disc one if they choose.
 

Raquelborn

"I slice your ass in 4."
AKA
Raq, Raquel.
Aerith still declared Cloud as her boyfriend or lover. A boyfriend or lover cannot be one sided. To call someone your boyfriend or lover the other person has to make it clear that they return the same feelings, right? Right. So even if it is the third person narrative, Aerith still declared a known fact, that Cloud is her friend and her lover/boyfriend/beloved/sweetheart. And a lover/koibito cannot be one sided.

It was some pages back but Ryushikaze actually gave an example or two of when fictional characters have called other characters their "koibito" despite there being no return of romantic feelings on the part of the person being called the lover.

So in other words, no. Aerith calling Cloud her lover certainly shows that she desires/desired him like that but it can't tell us whether Cloud regards her in the same way. (Which at the time he couldn't have anyway because it's been stated he was oblivious to her feelings as much as he was Tifa's).

As to Tifa's statement saying she is like a koibito/sweetheart -even though it is never stated to whom Tifa's a koibito to.- Only that she is like a sweetheart. It never mentioned a name -which would have been very helpful if it did- Unlike Tifa's koibito statement, Aerith's statement is made very clear, there's no doubt in who her koibito is as to Tifa's which leaves it up for debate.

Except Tifa was stated to be a koibito by a creator, out of the game's universe, making Tifa's status as someone's girlfriend as infallible as the word of God. Aerith's words on the other hand were how she perceived her and Cloud's relationship. (See above for the rest).

Cloud being stated as the person she is a koibito shouldn't be necessary either. Just like it isn't necessary to state she is a mother to Denzel and Marlene or an ally to Avalanche and so on. It would be silly to argue she is a mother to anyone but the two children living in her care and in her house, and this applies to "koibito" too. Others have elaborated on this point above.

They put Zack in FFVII as Aerith's first crush because it adds to the love story. I see a lot of Japanese movies/shows/books that always have a past relationship that adds some kind of drama to the story.

True, but that isn't always the case in every single novel with a past love so it isn't automatically the case in FFVII either.

Also, Cloud and Tifa are next to each other on this page! And we all know that means love. :D
ctha.jpg

Aren't Tifa and Cloud pretty much always put next to each other/on the same page in official SE materials?


The point is basically that being someone else's "catalyst" shows that the person must be very important to the other. Nothing romantic in itself of course.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
We need to get some good debating back. Christ. Why must the opposition be hit and run debaters? That shit really gets old, really fast.

Bless you Raquelborn, for trying to keep some sort of discussion afloat. Let's hope it works :monster:
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
Ah, but on the contrary Tifa is on the left side(corner) of Cloud. My scanner couldn't fit the entire page, lol.
And what about here?!

cthahsa.jpg
If you look at the placement of the characters, you see that Tifa and Aerith are in the same placement as Squall and Rinoa and Tidus and Yuna. Proving that it's all about lesbian T&A.

Honestly, you're not even trying!
 

Celes Chere

Banned
AKA
Noctis
Aren't Tifa and Cloud pretty much always put next to each other/on the same page in official SE materials?

Yeah, minus KH1 since Tifa wasn't in that game. Their profiles always seem to go: Cloud, Tifa, Aerith and so on. Not arguing that it means anything, of course.

To be fair, there are areas where Cloud and Aerith are next to one another as well, though. :lol: Like in the film strips and screen-caps etc.

Honestly, you're not even trying!

Damn, I took you for a fool! <=(
 
The point is basically that being someone else's "catalyst" shows that the person must be very important to the other. Nothing romantic in itself of course.
I think people use that quote more to show that Tifa isn't 'bringing Cloud down' and Aerith needs to motivate him to move forward the way some Clerii claim.
 

A

Great Old One
Aerith looks really weird in those pictures next to Zack.
There wasn't any other way she could avoid the Turks. Desperate times call for desperate measures...

Yeah, minus KH1 since Tifa wasn't in that game. Their profiles always seem to go: Cloud, Tifa, Aerith and so on. Not arguing that it means anything, of course.
You're forgetting the Cloud/Aerith merchandise! :@
 

Isabella

Your Mom
I think people use that quote more to show that Tifa isn't 'bringing Cloud down' and Aerith needs to motivate him to move forward the way some Clerii claim.

This. It's to silence the "Tifa is emotionally abusive!" bullpoopy that some of the crazier ones spew.
 

Vendel

Banned
I want someone to explain this to me so I understand it.

In what work of fiction when you have two(unrelated)adults living together are we suppose to assume that they are not in some sort of relationship?

I have looked up examples of "innocent co-habitation" and one thing that keeps popping up is that everyone in that fictional world assumes more is going on than it is. We the audience and people in those fictional worlds have to be specifically shown that nothing is really going on.

And in none of the examples I saw were the two adults raising children together. Funny that.

So please. Someone explain this logic to me.
 
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Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
You Drake. You can't leave. You must engage us right now! You can be the opposition for us. I challenge you to a duel right now!

And yes. We all have there, I agree. I mean, Cloud had to do something in order to get to sleep. And with Aerith sleeping in the same room, and in the dark...

I mean, its nothing against Tifa. At all. His heart's definitely there. But...she just wasn't in the party all the time....

Isabella said:
This. It's to silence the "Tifa is emotionally abusive!" bullpoopy that some of the crazier ones spew.

That argument always gives me a good chuckle due to how bizarre and out of step with the canon it is. I mean, it's a desperate tactic.
 

Isabella

Your Mom
You're just not up on your Japanese culture, Vendel. If you ask a real, live descendant of real, live Japanese natives, they'll tell you that platonic co-habitation and raising of children is totally the norm in their mysterious land. You're just too Westernized in your thinking.

... er, right?
 

A

Great Old One
To be fair, I know people who have had roommates of the opposite gender, yet remain mutually friends. Barret and Tifa were living together for awhile as well.

Of course, Cloud and Tifa's case is entirely different.
 

DrakeClawfang

The Wanderer of Time
You Drake. You can't leave. You must engage us right now! You can be the opposition for us. I challenge you to a duel right now!

And yes. We all have there, I agree. I mean, Cloud had to do something in order to get to sleep. And with Aerith sleeping in the same room, and in the dark...

I mean, its nothing against Tifa. At all. His heart's definitely there. But...she just wasn't in the party all the time....



That argument always gives me a good chuckle due to how bizarre and out of step with the canon it is. I mean, it's a desperate tactic.

Never, you can tie me down and torture me with Cloti pronz, but I still won't talk! I can take whatever you dish out, so go ahead, torment the Clerith with images of Cloti hentai, he won't talk!

Ah....well as I said earlier, I've been pondering Cloud's feelings for the ladies since seeing ACC. In AC, I got the sense Cloud was still guilty about Aerith and Zack and was forsaking his friends and family. ACC, it was made more clear that, while he *did* feel guilty, his emotions were also about him being afraid of losing his family. Got me thinking, and that's not something I do often, so this is big.
 

Vendel

Banned
To be fair, I know people who have had roommates of the opposite gender, yet remain mutually friends. Barret and Tifa were living together for awhile as well.

That's great. But if you didn't know these people would you assume that they were just mutual friends living together? Were they raising children to add another layer?

As for Tifa and Barret. Besides the fact that four other people lived there. We are shown that they are not in a relationship.

Isabella said:
You're just not up on your Japanese culture, Vendel. If you ask a real, live descendant of real, live Japanese natives, they'll tell you that platonic co-habitation and raising of children is totally the norm in their mysterious land. You're just too Westernized in your thinking.

... er, right?

I stand corrected.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
See, that's what I love about ACC. They really put the narrative focus where it needed to be in regards to Cloud and his reasons for what he did. It helped the story so much. It was much clearer than AC's portrayal.

That's what it's all about, Drake. You see the guy finally coming to terms with his fear of losing his family, and resolving his guilt over the deaths of Aerith and Zack.

I loved the scene where Denzel and Tifa were in trouble and about to die, and in his eyes you saw Aerith and Zack, and that scene had as much subtlety as a spiked sledgehammer in terms of Cloud's motivation. Also, the scene with Cloud and Marlene also makes it clear Cloud didn't leave because "mean ole' Tifa nagged him away and he wanted to go spiritually meet with Aerith."

He wanted to find a cure for Denzel. And while doing so, he got Geostigma. He lost his resolve and despaired. And cue the plot of ACC. The poor guy was afraid of losing what he loved.
 
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