So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

Who does Cloud love?

  • Aerith

    Votes: 20 14.2%
  • Tifa

    Votes: 121 85.8%

  • Total voters
    141
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Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Plus as it's been pointed out many times before, but can't be stressed enough, if Cloud really did reject Tifa to the point that she cried to the point where she was humiliated by how much she cried... how big of an asshole is Cloud to put her through that then say, "Hey I wanna start a new life with you!"

I mean holy shit that'd make me wanna kill him.
 

A

Great Old One
Agreed. Would Cloud actually deny her to the point where Tifa started crying? I mean, honestly, it only takes some common sense to see what's being delivered in that scene. If that isn't enough, the fact that Clerri claim that Tifa's desperately chasing after her boy toy and forcing him to be with her is so ignorant I want to send them Cloti pronz. It just proves that they know nothing of the characters.
 
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Vendel

Banned
Well, it's more to do with sharing a bedroom or a bed which usually comes strongly suggested in this circumstance, (which is why that can become a debate in itself). If Cloud and Tifa are living together but not sleeping in the same room or bed then it becomes a lot easier to see them as two close friends raising children together.

Raq I love ya but just no. Two people who are "just friends" do not raise children together. They just don't. Stop trying to invent a reason why they might not be a couple. "Well we don't know for sure of they this or that".

Don't look at it from a LTD POV. Look at it from a logical POV.

There are always exceptions to the general trend and therefore in themselves, the living arrangements are not enough to prove Cloud and Tifa as the canon couple. I think that's the point people like to make. Though they're certainly chucking everyone a big hint.

Yes there are exceptions to the rule. But the rule is still the damn rule until shown otherwise. Sure your chair might collapse when you sit in it. But I bet you don't test every chair you sit in every time on the off chance that it will break do you? As a general rule your ass is fine.

I'd also say that kiss and holding hands scenes are probably the biggest indicators of any pairing but both Cloud and Tifa and Cloud and Aerith lack these. That's then you go on to the next best hints, what we're discussing I suppose.

I would say the biggest one as was stated is DENZEL. There is no way to work around the fact that Cloud and Tifa are Denzel's new parents. I mean it's like wow. The creators had all those BS pinker arguments in mind when they invented him for AC.
 

paoo

♥
I hope your serious, cause we all know 3 ways are canon. I mean why if it was so blatant that Cloud and Tifa "are the secks canon" why do so many other people in the fandom not see or disagree. /: Yes, yes I've heard the red herring arguement, but if that was so why does SE keep giving CxA proofz or things in a possible romantic light after VII?

Yes, I am serious.
Hm.. my guess why they disagree is:

1. People fall in love with the CloudxAerith pairing. They had a good beginning together, and there are hints and they think Cloud and Aerith are going to end up together. This is great!

2. Hating for Tifa. She is a jealous bitch and is in the way of Cloud and Aerith's love. They suspect that she have feelings for Cloud.

3. Aerith dies. What? No. It can't be true! Now they are depressed and sad, and then they realize: "Hey, now when Aerith is dead.. maybe Cloud and Tifa ends up together instead."

4. TOTAL. PLOT. TWIST. Cloud reveals that he was lying to himself, and that he wanted to impress on Tifa, had feelings for her etc.

5. And in the end, Cloud and Tifa gets closer. They say nice things to eachother, Tifa sleeps on Cloud's shoulder, she's next to him all the time. He graps her hand. The ending scene were Cloud holds Tifa and she place her head on his chest. Now the Clerith fans are angry. They hoped for Cloud and Aerith to end up together, that's what they thought. And now it's Cloud and Tifa. They can't believe it.

6. All the evidence for Cloud and Tifa. Ultimania, Reunion Files, interviews.
The Clerith fans is trying to overanalyzing little things, that is supposed to have a hidden meaning. When... it doesn't. They won't admit they are wrong, after all they have done and said. Now they must keep going.

Well... I don't believe every single Clerith fan felt like that. But that's the impression you got of most of them that really are into this pairing.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
BTW what's the general response to, "Tifa says in CoT that the family is made up of friends..."?
 

Vendel

Banned
I don't understand how the big plot twist of FFVII somehow has no bearing on this argument from a pinker PoV.

I mean seriously do these people go on about how 6th Sense was a movie about the Bruce Willis character and his wife's marital problems? Set against the backdrop of helping a mentally disturbed boy?
 

A

Great Old One
I'm not sure if I've ever heard of a discussion regarding that line here, but I wouldn't be surprised if she considered everyone in AVALANCHE to be like her own family. There is a difference between the 'family' in AVALANCHE (Cloud, Aerith, Tifa, Yuffie, Vincent, Barret, etc.) and the 'family' with Cloud, Tifa, Marlene, and Denzel however. She probably considers Cloud, Marlene, and Denzel to be closer as they all live together as a family, and the four have already been declared as a family several times by numerous sources. When Tifa's thoughts are pondering throughout CoT about her family, it's seems to be focused solely on Cloud and the kids.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Exactly, what CxA proof are you talking about?

I honestly do think that Cloud can romantically be linked to Aerith before the Lifestream scene. But we already know at the time that Cloud was not himself - if Aerith did love Cloud, it was a fake the whole time. Or even more so, a clone of Zack. It doesn't make sense for Aerith and Cloud to be together when a.) Cloud is already living with Tifa b.) Aerith is with Zack in the Lifestream c.) They would pair up Aerith with a fake in the duration of Cloud and Aerith's time together, and d.) Tifa would have to be rejected by Cloud. And we most certainly do not see that. Square Enix never intended to make Tifa's character to cling on to Cloud even though we already 'saw' her being rejected in the Highwind scene. That's just too out of character for Tifa and Cloud.

Aerith plays an important role in Cloud's life, but that doesn't make her romantically involved with him. Unless there's proof of Cloud's thoughts (not Aerith's. Because Lifestream White only has Aerith's thoughts. Therefore, they are not koibitos), Cloud and Aerith are zilch.

We do have proof of Cloud's thoughts. The core of his subconcious, his 'heart' if you will.
Sadly, Aerith features nowhere inside it. It would seem any lingering attachment he may have had while she was alive was insufficient to warrant inclusion on his self of selves, the time when we get to know him.
Cloud possibly loving Aerith is possible, hell, it's part of Disc 1's one two red herring suckerpunch combo, but it does not seem to last beyond her death, or at least not overshadow the fixation on Tifa he has.

CCU- Cloud fell in love with Tifa before going to SOLDIER.
FF7, Lifestream sequence- Cloud's tender memories and a secret wish no one can ever know are his memories of Tifa, and his wish to be noticed BY HER.
FF7- Highwind scene- Cloud says there's so much he wanted to tell Tifa, but could not find the words, and that nothing has changed since he was a child.

Cloud fell in love with Tifa as a child.
He later says nothing has changed since he was a child.
QED.

That's the sort of thing that makes people who seriously suggest Cloud with his head back on together doesn't want to hook up with Tifa and would rather date a dead girl not quite right in my playbook.

So It's not about Koibito. It's not about her being an important woman and the mother of Cloud's family unit. It's not about her seeing Cloud as the father, or her love interest, or even that 'ideal love' quote that's actually a jumble of about five slightly inaccurate quotes like all the rest of the XThost profiles, hell it's not even about the goddamn sex under the Highwind, it's actually not even about the basic fictional commonalities that we the viewers are being shotgunned with in game, movie, and novella, though ALL of that helps.

It is about Cloud's stated intentions and the intent shown by his actions.
And THAT, my good fellows, is why the C/T conclusion is bloody well inescapable. Because for as unforgettable as Aerith is to Cloud (deliberately omitting such for anyone else), it is Tifa that two simple statements shows he is into, and then you pile on everything else as well. There are great heaping mounds of glorious interconnected statements, actions, and other such nifty things that continually pepper you with the idea of C/T. Even if we take in COLW that C and A were lovers, because of the damn rest of the evidence, they aren't any longer, because Cloud is now with Tifa in a romantic sense.

Also, go ancillary proofs.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
... you're gonna make me look it up aren't you? Okay...

Friends were a necessity to me so that I could live on without being supressed by the sins in my consciousness. Even if they were fellow companions that had the same wounds. Even if they were fellow companions who were burdened with the same sins. We couldn’t live without comforting each other and encouraging each other.
She's talking specifically about the "family" she's living with now.

By the way... Where is that quote when they say Tifa is Cloud's ideal love interest?

seconded O_o
 

A

Great Old One
By the way... Where is that quote when they say Tifa is Cloud's ideal love interest?
I think it was that when the Jenova mimicking cells took action from Cloud's mind (after seeing Tifa), he created an ideal version of himself.

She's talking specifically about the "family" she's living with now.
Oh... wait, then what was the question? :O
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
I want to know what the response is to people who say she said the family was full of friends...
 

KissTheRain

reality is a prison
AKA
jailbait
xAerith said:
By the way... Where is that quote when they say Tifa is Cloud's ideal love interest?
Here ya go sweets. :monster:



To Tifa, Cloud is the only one through which she can get in touch with her past. He is her ideal love and his existence is also like a prince who promised to come to her rescue when she is in trouble.
 

Celes Chere

Banned
AKA
Noctis
Where is that quote when they say Tifa is Cloud's ideal love interest?

I think you mean where it says Tifa is the only woman Cloud opened his heart to, and Cloud is Tifa's ideal love.

That's in the AC prologue book. Did you want the quote? :)

Never mind, KTR posted it. :lol:
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Here ya go sweets. :monster:

To Tifa, Cloud is the only one through which she can get in touch with her past. He is her ideal love and his existence is also like a prince who promised to come to her rescue when she is in trouble.

Why has this never been brought to my attention before? Who wrote this and why is it always ignored?... for that matter, what is the response to this? I mean wow... O_O
 

Celes Chere

Banned
AKA
Noctis
The response is sad, if you mean the opposing side. Apparently Cloud being ideal means that Tifa loves a fake Cloud, because he's not the hero she wanted him to be.

...

:facepalm:
 

A

Great Old One
Why has this never been brought to my attention before? Who wrote this and why is it always ignored?... for that matter, what is the response to this? I mean wow... O_O
Actually, that line is used a lot for 'debunking clotiz canonz.' Because apparently, Tifa only shows interest in him because she imagines him as a knight in shining armor. But of course, Cloud doesn't want to be that to Tifa! Because he's Aerith's bodyguard - he doesn't want to save Tifa (ironically, he does in ACC. But disregard that).

Thus, another tragic ending for Tifa Lockhart...
 

paoo

♥
I think you mean where it says Tifa is the only woman Cloud opened his heart to, and Cloud is Tifa's ideal love.

That's in the AC prologue book. Did you want the quote? :)

Never mind, KTR posted it. :lol:

Thank you anyway. :glomp:

Now I'm confused. People have said to me it was the other way around. That Tifa was Cloud's ideal love. Well, thanks for correcting me. :monster:

But that Cloud only opened his heart for Tifa, wow.. I've heard it before. But really, Tifa must be REALLY special to Cloud then. No one can say I'm wrong about that.
 

A

Great Old One
Well, there is that one line where it states that after Cloud looks at Tifa, the Jenova mimicking cells take action and he fashions the ideal version of what he wants to be. If he looked at any other person, I doubt he'd even try doing that.

But that Cloud only opened his heart for Tifa, wow.. I've heard it before. But really, Tifa must be REALLY special to Cloud then. No one can say I'm wrong about that.
And it certainly wouldn't be a very healthy relationship if Cloud and Aerith were together, as he only opened his heart for Tifa - and at this point, only her.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Actually, that line is used a lot for 'debunking clotiz canonz.' Because apparently, Tifa only shows interest in him because she imagines him as a knight in shining armor. But of course, Cloud doesn't want to be that to Tifa! Because he's Aerith's bodyguard - he doesn't want to save Tifa (ironically, he does in ACC. But disregard that).

Thus, another tragic ending for Tifa Lockhart...

The response is sad, if you mean the opposing side. Apparently Cloud being ideal means that Tifa loves a fake Cloud, because he's not the hero she wanted him to be.
...

 
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KissTheRain

reality is a prison
AKA
jailbait
A said:
Well, there is that one line where it states that after Cloud looks at Tifa...
Quotes for you too! :joy:

Immediately prior to the start of the game, when Cloud's mind was shattered, he ran into Tifa and seemed to immediately return to "normal"; this was because the mimic abilities of the Jenova cells inside Cloud read her mind, seeing her memories of him, which were then combined with his own ideal vision of himself, fashioning a new personality for him. ~FFVII Ultimania Omega, pg. 13

And it certainly wouldn't be a very healthy relationship if Cloud and Aerith were together, as he only opened his heart for Tifa - and at this point, only her.
Well we already knew that Cloud never had the chance to open up to Aerith, seeing he wasn't exactly himself when she was around, but could I get the quote and where it's from for Cloud opening his heart to Tifa cause I was just thinking it was TLS event that meant. /:
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
No no no, we're not done with this ideal love thing. Are you telling me the Clerith argument is that Square's way of saying Cloud is NOT Tifa's ideal love is to say he's her ideal love?
 

Isabella

Your Mom
I don't have the quote, but it says something about how in AC, he closes off his heart even from her. Which means it had been open to her up until that point.

No no no, we're not done with this ideal love thing. Are you telling me the Clerith argument is that Square's way of saying Cloud is NOT Tifa's ideal love is to say he's her ideal love?
Yes. It's always been the Clerith position that Tifa loves an idealized version of Cloud, not the real Cloud.
 

KissTheRain

reality is a prison
AKA
jailbait
Quexinos said:
Are you telling me the Clerith argument is that Square's way of saying Cloud is NOT Tifa's ideal love is to say he's her ideal love?
No, no the arguement is that real Cloud isn't a knight in shining armor, but the man Tifa wants is Zack so Tifa doesn't want the real Cloud...9.9
 

A

Great Old One
Well we already knew that Cloud never had the chance to open up to Aerith, seeing he wasn't exactly himself when she was around, but could I get the quote and where it's from for Cloud opening his heart to Tifa cause I was just thinking it was TLS event that meant. /:
His heart reveals everything about Tifa. He even BEGS Tifa not to tell anyone else about it. At the time, the real Cloud is already shown in the Lifestream. If he had a real desire for Aerith, that would have been the perfect opportunity.

No no no, we're not done with this ideal love thing. Are you telling me the Clerith argument is that Square's way of saying Cloud is NOT Tifa's ideal love is to say he's her ideal love?
Yes.
 
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