So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[Eerie]

I think what they mean is that CC shows Zerith more in depth, and by comparing with FF7, we see why Aerith acts like this towards Cloud - i.e., we see why she's hooked immediately, and that through Cloud, she's seeing Zack.

Of course, we already had statements from the creators, but for them to emphasize this in another game proves how important it was for Aerith during FF7.

In short, they sort of downgraded the Clerith importance in FF7 - I think that's what they mean by retcon. If you were to play the games, read the novellas and see the movie in the right chronological order, then what can be meant of Aerith ---> Cloud and Aerith ---> Zack?

Aerith fell in love with Zack during CC and never forgot him. And while Cloud also became very dear to her, it appears that, at the end of the movie, she's back with the one who never leaves her side - aka Zack. And more than them leaving together, the last images pretty much further this deep impression - Aerith had her conclusion and found her first and maybe only true [since she never knew the real Cloud, some can argue for this, especially since she saw Zack in him] love.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I never understood how Crisis Core supposedly canonized Zerith. Zerith was *always* canon, at least in CC. In FF7, we already knew Aerith was in a relationship with Zack, this is something that was established in the original game. Crisis Core just expanded on what was told, it didn't retcon it, it clarified it. A retcon is when new information replaces or invalidates old information. Well, CC showed Zerith, but then, we already knew about Zerith before, so how is that a retcon?

I'm not sure who's calling it a retcon, as no one here called it such prior to your comment (well, recently, anyways), but it's not a retcon. It is, however, new information that causes us to consider previous information in a different light. What it shows us is that the places visited, words said, and promises made in the early C/A herrings are really reflections of her time with Zack. It also shows us by the promise attached to pink and the connection of the ribbon, and Aerith's sensing of Zack's death despite her denial of not knowing what had happened to him, that she suspected he was with another girl, that that was all a lie, to herself more than anyone, that she's trying to play him down to herself so she can try and move on, so she won't have to deal with the pain of his loss.
As I've said before, it's a sad but compelling tale, especially since in her attempt to move on, the first thing she does is latch on to a man who reminds her of the man she's trying to get over. She's technically subconsciously rebounding onto what she consciously wants to avoid.

 

[Vendel]

Well one thing I still see pop up is how the uh...pinkers take Aerith's words during FF7 that she is like ttly over Zack and they weren't that serious at face value.

Even though we had an entire game that explores the relationship and it's impact in some depth.

As to why Aerith no longer loves Zack? Well other than what Aertith says in FF7 taking precedent over anything else. In Maiden she says she like tru wuvs Cloud more.

Just ignore CC and her actions during FF7. Also ignore the end of ACC.

 

[Dashell]

Slightly OT, what page is this on in the book?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/vilaeth_0/acplayback.jpg

 

[Neutron Ronnie]

Here's what I want to know. Why do people think Aerith no longer loves Zack? Is it because he's dead? Or is there something else?

Ah, but she's dead now too, so there's no excuse.

Supposedly she could see through Cloud's personality to the real Cloud beneath, and found it more appealing than Zack's, or some such manure.

I can't get over the irony of how the color Cleriths have been associating themselves with for years is the very same color that links Aerith to Zack.

Incidentally, just pointing it out here in case it hasn't been done before - when the party approaches the Northern Crater for the first time, and Cloud begins to find out he's not exactly who he thought he was, he never mentions Aerith. It's like she doesn't exist, almost. His head is full of the "lie" he's been living, how he's betraying his friends - and very obviously full of Tifa. But he never mentions Aerith.

If he'd been in love with Aerith, shouldn't that have helped him? If theirs was a deep love - the awe-inspiring kind that would keep him single and celibate until he dies, as the Cleriths claim - then it shouldn't have mattered to Cloud much whether he'd been created or not. He met Aerith after all that, after all. Shouldn't he have only cared about avenging her?

But it's pretty obvious that Aerith is slipping from his priority list when Sephiroth starts mindfucking him. He states himself that being Cloud of Nibelheim is what is important to him:

But, Tifa....... But you said, 'Long time no see, Cloud' right? Those words will always support me. I am the one you grew up with. I'm Cloud of Nibelheim. No matter how much I lose faith in myself, that is the truth.

 

[Strangelove]

Slightly OT, what page is this on in the book?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/vilaeth_0/acplayback.jpg

You're not making me go and fetch the book just to look at the page number That was the last page (that's the very last bit) of the AC playback section, probably from the revised edition. It should be that hard to find if you have the book, it's the page with all the pictures from the end of AC on it.

 

[Dashell]

The hell I'm not making you go get your book!....

....

okay thanks

 

[Makoeyes987]

And why did you ask that Quexinos? How..is that relevant to the LTD?

 

[Dashell]

Because it's not, I'm sorry Someone asked me what page it was on and I figured I'd get a quicker response if I just posted.

Supposedly she could see through Cloud's personality to the real Cloud beneath, and found it more appealing than Zack's, or some such manure.

Doesn't the quote just say that she can see that he's not really himself. It doesn't say that she can see the real him and knows his personality or anything. That's why she wants to meet the real him...

 

[Vendel]

If you were to play the games, read the novellas and see the movie in the right chronological order,

Well if you played CC before FF7 then those big reveals wont be so big.

But other than that it would make it impossible for someone new to the compilation to take C/A seriously.

 

[Isabella]

You're not making me go and fetch the book just to look at the page number That was the last page (that's the very last bit) of the AC playback section, probably from the revised edition. It should be that hard to find if you have the book, it's the page with all the pictures from the end of AC on it.

Just to be clear, that's the revised edition of the 10th anniversary Ultimania? There are too many Ultis for me to keep track of.

 

[Frostwave]

Doesn't the quote just say that she can see that he's not really himself. It doesn't say that she can see the real him and knows his personality or anything. That's why she wants to meet the real him...

Supposedly, "meeting" Cloud is just a formality to Aerith. She knows him inside and out because of her Cetra powers, but wants to, I dunno, shake hands with him after he knows who he is.

I saw that explanation on CxA, before I completely stopped visiting to see what they'd say about stuff.

 

[Neutron Ronnie]

Doesn't the quote just say that she can see that he's not really himself. It doesn't say that she can see the real him and knows his personality or anything. That's why she wants to meet the real him...

Ah, I'm not talking about an official quotation... I'm talking about a general Clerith argument, pertaining to why Aerith's love for Cloud is "valid" (working on the assumption that love only counts when you actually know the person you're falling in love with).

She knows him inside and out because of her Cetra powers...

Coupled with that stuff about her living inside of Cloud, Aerith is beginning to sound like one giant Cetra tapeworm.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Supposedly, "meeting" Cloud is just a formality to Aerith. She knows him inside and out because of her Cetra powers, but wants to, I dunno, shake hands with him after he knows who he is.

I saw that explanation on CxA, before I completely stopped visiting to see what they'd say about stuff.

Oh, so it doesn't mean sex any longer?
I was under the impression they were still fronting the 'In japan, 'wanting to meet' means sex' bull.

 

[Frostwave]

Maybe they say it means both now? I read this explanation in a "Cloud Became Zack y/n?" thread, and the one who posted it was one of the higher ups, an Admin who's username starts with an 'A'.

 

[Dashell]

Well to be fair Japanese is a hard language and a lot of things have different meanings so it's very possible to think... wait.. wait... wait... did you just say "wanting to meet" means "Have sex"? Who tells them this stuff? And I thought Yuffie was forward with the kiss. Aerith just blurts out, "Cloud I wanna have sex with you." I could make a joke about fireworks but meh.

I'm talking about a general Clerith argument, pertaining to why Aerith's love for Cloud is "valid" (working on the assumption that love only counts when you actually know the person you're falling in love with).

Yeah but they base that on a quote that says she knew Cloud wasn't Cloud because of her Cetra powers if I'm not mistaken.

Maybe they say it means both now? I read this explanation in a "Zack Became Cloud y/n?" thread, and the one who posted it was one of the higher ups, an Admin who's username starts with an 'A'.

Leave her alone, please?
EDIT:
wait did you mean Cloud became Zack? It doesn't make sense the other way around.

 

[Strangelove]

Just to be clear, that's the revised edition of the 10th anniversary Ultimania? There are too many Ultis for me to keep track of.

Yeah, that one.

This one.

 

[Frostwave]

Leave her alone, please?

Grrrreeeeebus Quexi! I'm not messing with her. Unless "messing" with her is subtly saying that she did in fact post that she believes that meeting Cloud didn't mean what it means.

EDIT:
wait did you mean Cloud became Zack? It doesn't make sense the other way around.

Ya, that's what I meant. Sorry.

 

[Dashell]

Err... sorry I didn't mean just YOU, I just knew where it was going as soon as you brought her up so it was like a "please don't take this thread there."

and I still don't think Cloud became Zack... I mean... Zack was upbeat, cheery, flirted with everyone. Cloud was blah, didn't care about anything and... well I know he had a new personality but I hate it when people say it was Zack.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Leave her alone, please?

Bringing up a thread that a poster started--without even directly naming the poster--isn't really anything antagonistic, so I don't think the "leave her alone" plea is warranted, Quexi.

That's like someone commenting that a certain "cloti" with the initials FHS made a why Cloti is canon essay (which I haven't, btw) and someone being all "Leave her alone!" Chris Crocker about it.

If they put it out there, it's fair game. Period.

If we can't even articulate arguments against theories, then wtf is the point?

 

[Frostwave]

@Quexi I getcha. I'd definitely rather avoid that stuff, too. Which is why I didn't even say her name, and didn't pick on 'er.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yeah but they base that on a quote that says she knew Cloud wasn't Cloud because of her Cetra powers if I'm not mistaken.

What are you talking about? There is no quote that ever says that. Her Cetra powahs did not magically allow her to realize who Cloud was. That's more madness from the pink colored glasses again.

And seriously Que, you're turning into Chris Crocker here. I'm glad you're the lone Anastar defender but no need to be paranoid.

 

[Vendel]

That's more madness from the pink colored glasses again.

Madness?


THIS IS CLERITH!!!@!!#!!

 

[Frostwave]

It's a quote from the Ultimania Omega, I think. But I don't have it handy myself. Thought I saw it posted in this thread recently.

 

[Dashell]

Maybe I'm taking it too seriously... I probably need to lighten up. I apologize, I'm still riled up from last night.

Okay so that means you guys don't have to quote me and reply to it anymore, okay guys? I admitted I was wrong

What are you talking about? There is no quote that ever says that. Her Cetra powahs did not magically allow her to realize who Cloud was. That's more madness from the pink colored glasses again.

It says she can sense Cloud isn't really Cloud or something, I'd have to find it.

And seriously Que, you're turning into Chris Crocker here. I'm glad you're the lone Anastar defender but no need to be paranoid.

See above
I also find it amusing that you guys know Chris Crocker but a lot of you didn't know Chris Chan.