So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[Isabella]

We were never shown/told that Cloud and Tifa sex or confessed their love. Therefore, they have not.

Except the story itself indicated something had happened/changed in that case. No such thing occurred with the ribbon.

 

[Celes Chere]

Well said, Frosti. Aerith promised she'd always wear the ribbon. So, just wondering KTR, how do you feel about Aerith wearing pink for Zack? It's the same situation as the ribbon, unless pink being connected to Zack also means nothing?

I'm just trying to understand why you think the creators would connect those things to Zack, and then have that change by the end of Crisis Core. How is that shown, and how does that make sense in the storyline? Because let's face it, Zack giving Aerith the ribbon and her promise to him about the dress, aren't important to the plot at all. They could have easily gone without them, but they didn't. Why is that?

To make a point, is my idea. ^^

 

[KissTheRain]

Pink is Zack's thing so obviously seeing he is the one that told her to wear it whereas the bow she picked out on her own because of her not so secret fetish, ya here?

I'm not retarded I know Zack buying it added Zerith points, but I'm just talking about Aerith as a character and how she likes dem bows minus the guys, that's all really.

 

[Neutron Ronnie]

Who cares if it was a different ribbon? I can see it getting worn over the years, and Aerith having to replace it.

But think about it. The color pink, and Aerith's hair ribbon - they're both very "symbolic" of her. Hell, the Cleriths themselves have used them time and time again to represent themselves Aerith.

The main color of one of their forums? Check.
Debate about Aerith's hair ribbon drifting down from the heavens to strangle Cloud's dick while he's on a motorbike? Check.

Yet the funny thing is, the makers of the game have gone out of their way to tie both the color pink and the hair ribbon to Aerith's relationship with Zack. Aerith tells Zack she'll wait for him, I think.

Why is it that when Aerith says she'll wait for someone, death nullifies the promise, but a grunt or so from Cloud will carry an unsaid promise beyond the grave? Is Aerith supposed to be that flaky?

I'm telling you, they didn't do this for laughs... Aerith is linked inextricably to Zack; no wonder Cleriths don't want to think of Crisis Core as canon.

 

[Celes Chere]

Pink is Zack's thing so obviously seeing he is the one that told her to wear it whereas the bow she picked out on her own because of her not so secret fetish, ya here?

I'm not retarded I know Zack buying it added Zerith points, but I'm just talking about Aerith as a character and how she likes dem bows minus the guys, that's all really.

Right, she liked the ribbon. But she told Zack she'd always wear it from that day on, and it was a gift from him. The point is not that Aerith likes ribbons, it's the fact that this ribbon is special, it's from someone she is in a relationship with, and she tells him that she will always wear it. Now, by the end of Crisis Core the ribbon is still in and she's wearing pink, waiting for Zack to return. I don't see how that shows Aerith got over Zack, or that she likes to wear ribbons. I see a girl that is stuck on a man.

I know that you're not retarded, and didn't mean to insinuate that if you thought I was. DX I know that Aerith likes ribbons. She's very feminine, so it makes a lot of sense. I'm trying to say that her ribbon is the same one Zack gave her at the end of the game which you disagreed with, did you not?

 

[Vendel]

I'm telling you, they didn't do this for laughs... Aerith is linked inextricably to Zack; no wonder Cleriths don't want to think of Crisis Core as canon.

No no no. CC is canon. But since it is all IN THE PAST. It means absolutely nothing.

 

[Neutron Ronnie]

No no no. CC is canon. But since it is all IN THE PAST. It means absolutely nothing.

Is that what they're saying now?

Well, it's true - it's in the past... As is any interest Cloud might've shown in Aerith when she was alive. Because she's dead now. And that's all in the past.

 

[Celes Chere]

Nope... Aerith 'haunting' Cloud somehow is > than living with a woman he's crushed on since childhood.

 

[Dashell]

Hey you guys are the ones saying "Cloud was her beloved" was in "past tense" so it doesn't matter

Don't hurt me Ryu, it's a joke

and yes it IS in the past but you sometimes need to tie the past with the present. Cloud is living with a girl he had a crush on in the past... and he's raising a family with her, in the present. Aerith got a gift from Zack in the past, and she's wearing it in the present. Aerith was dating Zack in the past and is with him in the lifestream, in the present... etc etc...

 

[Vendel]

Well, it's true - it's in the past... As is any interest Cloud might've shown in Aerith when she was alive. Because she's dead now. And that's all in the past.

It applies to anything but someones feelings for Aerith. No one is allowed to get over Materia Jesus*. But Aerith can drop Zack like a bad habit once AC is done and haunt Clouds body.


*Going on the assumption like Celriths do that Cloud was ever under her to begin with.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I guess it does make sense for Aerith but I don't like the idea that because you wear something an X gave you it means you're not over them. I mean I KNOW that they tied the bow in with Zack for a reason... and it makes the ending to AC/C all the more sweet really. She finally gets to be with him again. daaawww ...

But anyway, one of my first BFs, Tom, brought me a nice necklace and I liked it a lot. I wore it even after we broke up because I liked it, not because I wasn't over him. Same with Rob, we were together a few years ago and broke up... but I kept the gloves he gave me and always wore them cause they were warm

I also kept and wore the watch he gave me cause.. well I liked it. It had nothing to do with me not being over him.

I realize Aerith's case was different than mine, ... but I did want to point that out

Your case is real world. Aerith's is fiction.
Narrative is built upon several conveniences and assumptions that don't necessarily hold true in the real world. As Bella said, one of these is 'Status Quo is King', and another is 'The past, when shown, is more than a simple occurence in time. It is IMPORTANT' This holds true for both flashbacks and Prequels, as what goes on is important to a character in the present installment.
The PT and its effect on the OT of SW, for example.
A third is 'Promises FUCKING MATTER' If two people make a promise, it is IMPORTANT.

Hey you guys are the ones saying "Cloud was her beloved" was in "past tense" so it doesn't matter

Don't hurt me Ryu, it's a joke

::Hurts you::

and yes it IS in the past but you sometimes need to tie the past with the present. Cloud is living with a girl he had a crush on in the past... and he's raising a family with her, in the present. Aerith got a gift from Zack in the past, and she's wearing it in the present. Aerith was dating Zack in the past and is with him in the lifestream, in the present... etc etc...

The thing is, there's a difference between shown past and told past when it comes to intra-narrative. Something we are shown- that disrupts the regular flow of narrative- is more important than something we are told- which does not- simply because by its disruption, it is more likely to jar the viewer, so it had better be important to the story somehow. Things told may or may not be. But in any case, Cloud being the beloved in the past tense is pointed out simply to forestall the 'she's talking about the present tense so obviously Cloud loves her back and can't be with TIFA' nonsense.
And no, AA, we didn't 'come up' with the fact that it's past tense just to spite your spirit loving nonsense. We have better things to do than fuel a victim complex. Thanks for letting me know about that, BTW, Little Birdy.

So, hilarious Dissidia Tidbit.
I've played through Cecil mode twice, so I move onto Cloud. Come the convo where Cecil and Cloud discuss Firion's dream, first he calls it childlike- seemingly for lack of a better word, as he pauses beforehand- then Cecil says 'Honest men may have honest dreams', to which Cloud responds 'Maybe he wished it on a star', to which I nearly fell off my bed laughing.
Ker-yep.
So much for no Tifa references in Dissidia, folks.

 

[Dashell]

::Hurts you::

...

sweet

to which Cloud responds 'Maybe he wished it on a star', to which I nearly fell off my bed laughing.
Ker-yep.

I like what you had the first time, that was much more Cloti.

 

[cReo]

heeyy....

You guys makes much more sense than the cleriths in the cute

Pink Forum... well, IN MY OPINION,

the cleriths "over-interpreted"--(is there such word)

things.. *PEACE* what made ROFL is the "interview at

wacdonalds" stuff..hehehhehe..


--forgive my english if it's bad.

anywayz, don't mind me and carry on with you

discussions...

 

[Celes Chere]

'Honest men may have honest dreams', to which Cloud responds 'Maybe he wished it on a star', to which I nearly fell off my bed laughing.
Ker-yep.
So much for no Tifa references in Dissidia, folks.

I'll be picking up Dissidia in about three days. I can't wait to see this line! The thought of you falling off of your bed laughing is hilarious for some reason though. I'm going to 'aww' so much when I can hear that line for myself.

 

[I Am Not Me]

I've played through Cecil mode twice, so I move onto Cloud. Come the convo where Cecil and Cloud discuss Firion's dream, first he calls it childlike- seemingly for lack of a better word, as he pauses beforehand- then Cecil says 'Honest men may have honest dreams', to which Cloud responds 'Maybe he wished it on a star', to which I nearly fell off my bed laughing.
Ker-yep.

I just saw that, like, 15 minutes ago while I was playing, and I was all "Whut, Cloud?" XDDDDD Then I just realized something...

So much for no Tifa references in Dissidia, folks.

And the Zack references... yum. Looks like Clack is winning though.

Hmm... so what do you Cleriths think of the English Dissidia?

 

[Isabella]

Wait, is Dissidia out? I'm totally out of it.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Ya. Is out in US. Picked it up last night. Working on mastering Cecil and Cloud's story modes, then moving on to others, maybe Shade Impulse without completing the rest.

Addendum: This just in- according to what a little birdy told me, a certain well known Pinker does not believe sex with ghosts would constitute necrophilia.

Even if that is TECHNICALLY correct- as there is no dead body involved and the general disorder relates to dead bodies- it would still involve sex with a dead person, which is the crux of why the idea is fucked up to begin with, and why it is Necrophilia, even though it involves sex with dead persons of types the medical definition does not include (for the simple expedient of those types not actually existing, natch)

 

[Makoeyes987]

I always thought necrophilia was sex with a corpse though. Isn't there a distinct paraphilia for arousal from ghosts and spirits?

And yeah, the "wish on the star" line, is a reference to Tifa, but ironically it never made it in the Dissidia Ultimania's reference page.

Now here's something really interesting.

See, the translations done before hand by fans had the line translated as maybe it was "a wish born from the planet" but...keep in mind the words for "star" and "planet" are the same in Japanese.

So maybe the context was meant to be "star" which would be more a reference to Tifa, since...that's a reference to the Nibelheim well meeting he had with Tifa.

BUT

saying it was "a wish born from the planet" also could work since that would be a reference to Aerith who made a wish to the planet for Holy.

And now we see which one was the right one.

 

[Madame Mayor]

But I thought sex wasn't needed in a relationship.

 

[Dashell]

And now we see which one was the right one.

And somehow the answer doesn't surprise me at all.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Are you sure? I thought there was no significant change to the morning after scene between the two versions.

The only real change next morning is Tifa going "You were listening?" vs. "You were watching?" all embarrassed and shit.
Rejection exists nowhere. One is just more extreme than the toher. One gives you (and AVALANCHE, the dirty pervs) more info and let's you see more and one doesn't.
In no version is Tifa rejected by Cloud. They sleep together and wake up together the next morning regardless. Doesn't matter if you fucking ignore Tifa throughout the entire game. The story doesn't give you any choice in this.
Cee and Tee sleep together, SE says. Suck it up.

Also I find it hilarious that Cloud and Tifa could not have had sex under the Highwind despite the reaction from AVALANCHE, the fade to black, the comments by the creators of the current version beign a toned down sex scene....yet Cloud and Aeris at the end of a scene, while cutting to another scene (after the gondola), with no allusions whatsoever = TOTALLY COULD HAVE HAD SEX.
It's laughable. Seriously.

What Aerith does is a bit more, though

Also, remember this is a story. We are specifically told the ribbon is an item that commemorates Zack and Aeris' meeting. In addition to this, Zack tells her to wear pink when he returns.
This information isn't just there for no reason. Aeris' ribbon years later, and outfit, are a direct response to this random piece fo info.
It's not like Zack told her to wear black and she wore pink, rendering that shit useless. It's not like they appointed the ribbon as the item to remember their meeting by and she changed it to a hair clip later. Aeris adheres to the given info.

When Mufasa tells Simba to look at the stars whenever he feels lonely/in need of advice and years later Simba does it when he is lonely/in need of advice, are people wondering whether this is an echo of Big Mu's words? Seriously?

We were never shown/told that Cloud and Tifa sex or confessed their love.

We are never shown/told that Cloud ever grew out of that crush on Tifa. Eh? What was that?

 

[Tennyo]

Wait, is Dissidia out? I'm totally out of it.

Today today TODAY!!!! I'll be getting a copy in the next few days as well!

 

[Fairheartstrife]

We were never shown/told that Cloud and Tifa sex or confessed their love. Therefore, they have not.

"Cloud and Tifa come to realize their mutual feelings for one another..."
The scene was intended to be risque.
**ahem**

So, shown and told.

 

[Dashell]

Mutual feelings of FRIENDSHIP, geeze you guys

 

[Makoeyes987]

Seriously, quit being silly. People actually believe that. I mean, really, no need to be confusing now.