[Spoilers] Material Ultimania Plus discussion

Obsidian Fire

Ahk Morn!
AKA
The Engineer
I mean... this is more or less how Mimic and Reunion have been described for the last... decade in a half... there's nothing really *new* there. Rather just a clarification that "this concept we introduced in the OG is still very much in play in Remake"

There's some people who pretty much looked at all the different "types" of Sephiroth in Remake an went "there's only one Sephiroth, he's just using Mimic and Reunion to influence Cloud at range in various 'formats'" and called it a day. It's less interesting for them and more of a "how do people keep *missing* this in the OG and not applying it to Remake's storytelling?!?!?" frustration.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Pretty sure it wasn't widely believed Reunion transcended time and space though. That's definitely an advancement in the ability, along with Sephiroth using it on himself.
 
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TurquoiseHammer

Pro Adventurer
I can't speak for everyone else but one of the things that made me hesitate to believe there was only one Sephiroth was the way the clones were presented. For some reason I got the impression that they were still going about their OG business, unaware that a new, more powerful version of Sephiroth had entered the picture. If the "new" Sephiroth could control them, why not use them as another means to upset the original flow of destiny? (I realize there are valid answers to this question.)

Unrelated: the line in the script after Aerith says "Freedom," in response to Tifa asking what's on the other side of the portal, is not: "[Aerith] echoes Zack's line" but "This echoes Zack's line." These descriptive lines are always explicit about who is acting or reacting in certain ways. Having said that, it's still reasonable to interpret this as evidence that Aerith just saw the Zack flashback; but it doesn't prohibit the interpretation that this is just a cinematic flourish.

- Cloud is tempted to take Sephiroth's hand when it's offered to him at the Edge of Creation. To resist the urge, he grasps the Buster Sword instead.(Did Audrey or someone else already translate this Edge of Creation script? Seems like an obvious fan favorite.)

-When Yuffie sees Tifa and Barret outside of Seventh Heaven, she can't clearly make out their faces because of the distance. [This likely means she won't recognize them when they meet up in part 2, and therefore won't know they're Avalanche friendlies.]

-One of Jessie's voice lines when you're battling the swarm of whispers in Chapter 4 is "How many of them are there?", which would seem to indicate she can see the whispers well enough to tell they're multiple discrete entities. Can't remember where we landed on that topic but there's more evidence if you need it.

-There appears to be more dialogue in the Hell House fight than in the entire rest of Chapter 9.
 
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ultima786

Pro Adventurer
AKA
ultima
I can't speak for everyone else but one of the things that made me hesitate to believe there was only one Sephiroth was the way the clones were presented. For some reason I got the impression that they were still going about their OG business, unaware that a new, more powerful version of Sephiroth had entered the picture. If the "new" Sephiroth could control them, why not use them as another means to upset the original flow of destiny? (I realize there are valid answers to this question.)

Unrelated: the line in the script after Aerith says "Freedom," in response to Tifa asking what's on the other side of the portal, is not: "[Aerith] echoes Zack's line" but "This echoes Zack's line." These descriptive lines are always explicit about who is acting or reacting in certain ways. Having said that, it's still reasonable to interpret this as evidence that Aerith just saw the Zack flashback; but it doesn't prohibit the interpretation that this is just a cinematic flourish.

- Cloud is tempted to take Sephiroth's hand when it's offered to him at the Edge of Creation. To resist the urge, he grasps the Buster Sword instead.(Did Audrey or someone else already translate this Edge of Creation script? Seems like an obvious fan favorite.)

-When Yuffie sees Tifa and Barret outside of Seventh Heaven, she can't clearly make out their faces because of the distance. [This likely means she won't recognize them when they meet up in part 2, and therefore won't know they're Avalanche friendlies.]

-One of Jessie's voice lines when you're battling the swarm of whispers in Chapter 4 is "How many of them are there?", which would seem to indicate she can see the whispers well enough to tell they're multiple discrete entities. Can't remember where we landed on that topic but there's more evidence if you need it.

-There appears to be more dialogue in the Hell House fight than in the entire rest of Chapter 9.
You are too good at this. Take over, please.
 

TurquoiseHammer

Pro Adventurer
Here's another second opinion translation. It's the interview question about Aerith's resolution scene.

Q:「でもね、好きにならないで」「もしそうなっても、気のせいだよ」というエアリスのセリフは、どういう意図で発せられたのでしょうか?

[鳥山の]A:エアリス本人はこのとき神羅ビルに幽閉されているので、クラウドの前に姿を見せたのは、何らかの意識がライフストリームに作用して出現した"もっとも未来の記憶に近いエアリス”です。そんな彼女の願いを、素直に言葉にしているのでしょう。クラウドへの言葉ではありますが、自分自身に言い聞かせている部分もあるかと思います。また、願いの言葉には、本当の心とは裏腹な想いがこもっているのかもしれません。

Q: What sort of message were you trying to convey by having Aerith speak the lines, “You mustn’t fall in love with me. Even if it seems you have, it isn’t real”?

[Toriyama's] A: Aerith herself is physically detained inside the Shinra Building at this point in time. The figure that shows up before Cloud is an Aerith who is exceptionally in touch with memories of the future, and who appeared here after some sort of consciousness acted upon the Lifestream. She seems to be making a genuine plea, yet while these words are intended for Cloud, I think Aerith is partly speaking them to herself. Her request to Cloud may be at odds with how she truly feels inside.
_____

It's not clear whom the consciousness that acted upon the Lifestream belongs to. Could be "our" Aerith, could be "future" Aerith, could be Sephiroth, Jenova, Ifalna, Minerva, whatever crazy fringe theory you want to insert.
 
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TurquoiseHammer

Pro Adventurer
I'm mostly done going through the Ultimania, though I haven't read absolutely everything, just the stuff that seemed most urgent. I'm posting the ToC, so if there's anything in here that you'd like to know about, or if you'd like me to look up something about a particular model (weapons, enemies, Happy Turtle poster, etc.), just let me know.

Part 1: Computer Graphics (CG and in-engine models)
--Key Artwork (Intergrade only)
--Characters (Intergrade only)
--CG Cutscenes (Intergrade only)
--Environments
--Gadgets (weapons, armor, accessories, etc.)
--Enemies
Part 2: Image Art (concept art and storyboards)
--Characters
--Environments
--Gadgets
--Enemies
--Cutscenes
Part 3: Voice Scripts
--Scene Dialogue Scripts
--Battle Dialogue
--Minor NPC Dialogue
Appendix
--Intermission Story Digest and Walkthrough
 

ultima786

Pro Adventurer
AKA
ultima
I'm mostly done going through the Ultimania, though I haven't read absolutely everything, just the stuff that seemed most urgent. I'm posting the ToC, so if there's anything in here that you'd like to know about, or if you'd like me to look up something about a particular model (weapons, enemies, Happy Turtle poster, etc.), just let me know.

Part 1: Computer Graphics (CG and in-engine models)
--Key Artwork (Intergrade only)
--Characters (Intergrade only)
--CG Cutscenes (Intergrade only)
--Environments
--Gadgets (weapons, armor, accessories, etc.)
--Enemies
Part 2: Image Art (concept art and storyboards)
--Characters
--Environments
--Gadgets
--Enemies
--Cutscenes
Part 3: Voice Scripts
--Scene Dialogue Scripts
--Battle Dialogue
--Minor NPC Dialogue
Appendix
--Intermission Story Digest and Walkthrough
I want everything :aah:
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
I see you've been busy on Reddit @Ultimasamune :monster:

I'll leave the rest for you to post but this bit here really intrigued me:

-A character artist very explicitly confirms everyone's deduction that the Diabolic Creation, or Heretic Rayleigh, is indeed the scientist Rayleigh after being turned into an enemy [monster]. [Unless there are two Doctor Rayleighs, I think it's safe to say this is the one from BC.]

Whelp. Not surprising but pretty sad. Guess things didn't work out okay for her like she thought it would.

The fact that the writers put an incredibly specific and esoteric nod to Before Crisis like this makes me shiver in excitement. They really do remember everything.
 

cold_spirit

he/him
AKA
Alex T
It's too bad the English translation misses these nods. Another missed one was Whisper Corceo's ability "Velvet Nightmare", which was translated as just "Whirl". That one in particular would've helped settle the debate on whether the Whisper trio represent Sephiroth's remnants. We needed the Ultimania to explicitly point that out to us, just like now.
 
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TurquoiseHammer

Pro Adventurer
I know Audrey already translated the parts about cat and Reno comparisons, but if there is anything else in the book about cats I would love to know!, the cats in Chapter 4, Wedge's cats, any cat, gimme cat! :hearteyecat:
Ah, sounds like you would enjoy the Cat Page. I'll take a pic when I get back home.

When do we fight Heretic Rayleigh?
In English the enemy is called Diabolic Creation. I think it's the last battle before Nero, when Yuffie and Sonon are trapped in the VR dome. It's only Rayleigh's "combat data" simulation though, I guess. Who knows what happened to the real thing. Does anyone know the enemy description?
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
It's data entry reads:

A man-made monstrosity created by Shinra's Research and Development Division, it has since been disposed of for it's cannibalistic nature and disobedience. All that remains of it is the data stored in the Combat Simulator.

So it's dead. Shinra disposed of her after making her a monster. You can see that Heretic Rayleigh carries a human face if you look closely at it's head.

Given her name and appearance it's a 97% chance she was injected with Jenova cells and exposed to radical levels of mako. Her design is a combination of a Makonoid and Heretic Hojo.
 

TurquoiseHammer

Pro Adventurer
A cool page from the storyboard section—the only colorized one included in the book.
20210728_114102.jpg
ストーリーボードアーティスト:奥居久明
パリア内で逆光を受けるネロとヴァイスのあやしげな雰囲気を伝えるべく、カラーで絵コンテを作成しました。この絵コンテでは、VR空間のなかに研究員たちが描かれていますが、完成版ではチャドリーとヴァイスを目立たせるために研究員たちは登場させていません。


リードカットシーンテクニカルアーティスト:林淳一
部屋内に無数のケーブルがぶら下がっている絵がとてもカッコ良いです。それを忠実に再現してくれた背景チームに感謝!


Storyboard Artist: Okui Hisaaki
I used a color storyboard to convey the ominous aura of Nero and Weiss, who are backlit here by the barrier wall. In this storyboard, the researchers are depicted inside the VR chamber, but in the final product they’ve been excluded to draw more attention to Chadley and Weiss.


Lead Cutscene Technical Artist: Hayashi Junichi
The image of all these cables draped around the room looks really neat. I’m grateful to those who did the backgrounds for faithfully reproducing it!
 
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TurquoiseHammer

Pro Adventurer
Cats! @Maidenofwar
20210728_120714.jpg
レベルデザインスーパーバイザー:澤田唯
ニャル、バニ、パスのようにカットシーンでアップになるネコには、ハイクオリティな専用の3Dモデルが用意されています。これがまた豪華に作られていて、ほかのNPCとくらべて段ちがいに処理が重くなりがちだったので、地味に苦労しました…。

レベルデザインスーバーバイザー:澤田唯
七番街スラムのクエストで捜すネコですが、企画の時点では黒ネコの想定でした。しかし、雑然としたスラムに溶けこみすぎてしまい、開発スタッフから「全然見つからない!」との苦情を受けた結果、白ネコが採用されています。

Level Design Supervisor: Sawada Yui
For the cats like Nyaru, Bani, and Pasu, who we zoomed in on in cutscenes, we had to provide dedicated, high-quality 3D models. Because they were crafted with meticulous detail, they wound up being more processor-intensive than most of the other NPCs, and proved unexpectedly challenging.

Level Design Supervisor: Sawada Yui
This is a cat you have to find during one of the quests in the Sector 7 Slums. During the planning stages, we had intended to go with a black cat; however, a white cat was chosen after development staff complained that they couldn’t spot the cat at all among the overwhelming clutter of the slums.
 
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TurquoiseHammer

Pro Adventurer
Here's the final boss and "death" scene from Intermission. I've used the English localization's script for the spoken lines. Underlined text is the bold red text that the Ultimania wishes to draw readers' attention to.
_______
神羅ビル地下:計測エリア
ユフィとソノンが警戒しながら計測エリアへと入ってくる。その様子を、ブジックミラー越しの隣室の計測室から計測モニターなどで、観察している神羅の研究員たち。
研究員A「対象の侵入を確認。これより、ツヴィエートの戦闘テストを開始する」
指示に、測定担当者(研究員B)がうなずき、装置を操作する。計測モニターに映し出されるネロの姿。モニター画面内に様々な数値が表示される。モニター映像に重ねるなどで、再びユフィたちの視点に移行。ネロが闇の力で、DGソルジャーの首を持ち上げている。周りにはDGソルジャーの死体が転がっている。
ユフィ「どうなってるの?仲間割れ?」
ネロが反応する。DGソルジャーを持ち上げている闇の力が強まる。
ネロ「仲間?」
DGソルジャー「(うめき声)」
ネロ「ディープグラウンドにそんなものはないよ」
ユフィ「ディープ、何?」
ネロ「ボクと兄さんの遊び場」
ユフィ「そこ、どいてくれない?」
ネロの目前のDGソルジャーが闇に包まれて消える。同じように周囲に転がっていたDGソルジャーたちも闇に沈んで消える。構えるユフィとソノン。
ソノン「ダメらしいね」
ユフィ「一応聞いてみただけ!」
二人も戦闘態勢に入る。
ネロ「さあ、楽しみましょうか」

<中略>

ネロ、愉悦の声をあげる。
ネロ「フフフ!いい!いい!もっと感じさせてください!痛みを!死を!」
ソノン「先輩!ここで決めよう!」
ユフィ「まっかせなさーーーい!」
ユフィとソノンが運身の連携攻撃を繰りだす。ネロ、闇に包まれ消滅する。
ユフィ「勝った?」
ソノン「ああ」
ユフィ「やったあ!」(ため息まじり)
さすがに疲れた表情を見せるユフィ。ソノン、ほっとしつつも、脱出口を探して周囲を見回す。計測室(バトルフェーズ2で入った)にある、エレベーターに気づく。ソノンはすこしおどけて、声をかける。
ソノン「おつかれのところ、なんですけど急いで脱出しないと」
ユフィ「ちょっと休憩しない?」
ソノン「おぶろうか?」(ニッコリ)
ユフィ「げえ、けっこうです」
二人はエレベーターへ向かう。二人が去ったあと、微かに闇が渦巻く。エレベーター(とその行き先などがわかるパネル)が見える。
ユフィ「あった」
すると、ソノンが背後から迫る気配に気がつく。その気配の危険さを察した刹那、表情が真剣に変わる。ソノンがユフィの背中を押す。
ユフィ「ちょっと、何(すんの)」
文句を言って振り返ると、ソノンの腕がユフィを守るようにガシッとエレベーターの扉につかれる。それはプレートに上がる列車の中で、人混みから守ってくれたときのような体勢である。ソノンが何かからユフィを守るように立っている。ソノンの足元に闇が迫り、その胸を突き破るようにいくつもの刃物(ネロの羽根)が飛び出す。刃物の切っ先が、ユフィ(の顔)に迫る。
ユフィ「ソノン?」
実は《淀みの力》が暴走したネロが突撃しており、それをソノンが盾となり、ユフィを庇っていた。今も暴走したネロを必死に抑えている。
ソノン「…行って」
ソノン、最期の力で近くにあるエレベーターのボタンを押す。
ユフィ「そんな」
ソノン「頼む…」
ユフィ「でも」
ソノンを貫く刃。
ユフィ「ソノン…」
ソノン「先輩…生きのびて、戦え…」
ユフィ「やだよ…そんなの…」
ユフィの背後のエレベーターの扉が開く。ユフィ、力なく後ずさり、エレベーターに入る。
ユフィ「ソノン!」
扉の支えがなくなり、ソノンの腕がだらんと垂れ下がる。扉が閉まり始める。ソノン、上を見上げ、静かに目を閉じる。ネロの闇の力は襲い続け、ソノンは力をいれて守っている。扉が閉まる。
ユフィ「(言葉にならない叫び)あーーーーーっ!」
取り残されたソノン。ユフィを見送り微笑む。ガクリと膝をつく。ポケットを探るなどしてユフィからもらったダチャオ豆を口に放り込む。しかしもう力が入らず噛めない。
ソノン「固っ…」
遠のく意識。妹の時とは違い、助けることが出来たとホッとする。ソノンの顔に笑顔が広がる。
ソノン「メルフィ··」
妹の幻影が見えたらしい。ゆっくりとネロの暗闇に取り込まれ、消える。

Shinra Building Basement: Testing Grounds
Yuffie and Sonon cautiously step into the Testing Grounds. There are Shinra researchers in the room next door, monitoring the situation on their testing consoles from the other side of a one-way mirror.
Researcher A: “Subjects on site. It’s time. Initiate the Tsviet field test.”
Upon instruction, the person in charge of the test (Researcher B) nods and begins operating the equipment. We see Nero’s image projected on one of the testing consoles. Various numerical values are displayed on the console’s screen. The image on the screen is superimposed [with the real image of Nero], and we return to Yuffie’s point of view. With the power of darkness, Nero is lifting up a Deepground soldier by their neck. Nearby, the corpses of other Deepground soldiers writhe on the floor.
Yuffie: What are you doing? Aren’t you all on the same team?
Nero responds, the force of the darkness suspending the Deepground soldier intensifying.
Nero: Team?
Deepground Soldier: (Moans)
Nero: Fool. There are no “teams” in Deepground.
Yuffie: Deep… ground?
Nero: The place where my brother and I like to play.
Yuffie: Cool. Now, mind moving aside?
The Deepground soldier in front of Nero is enveloped by darkness. Likewise, the Deepground soldiers who were writhing around sink into the darkness and disappear.
Sonon: Let’s take a different tack.
Yuffie: Well, can’t blame a girl for trying.
The two assume battle stances.
Nero: Now… let the games begin.

<Omitted>

Nero pitches his voice in delight.
Nero: Yes, yes! I must know more of this feeling! Of pain! Of death!
Sonon: Now, Boss! Let’s finish this!
Yuffie: Don’t gotta tell me twice!
Yuffie and Sonon unleash a critical coordinated attack. Nero is engulfed by his own darkness and disappears.
Yuffie: Did we?
Sonon: We did.
Yuffie: (Sighing) Awesome…
Yuffie makes an exhausted face in typical fashion. Relieved, Sonon casts around for an escape route. He notices an elevator inside the testing room (which was broken open in the battle’s second phase). Sonon calls out to Yuffie rather teasingly.
Sonon: Don’t wanna spoil the moment, but… we should prob’ly get going.
Yuffie: But I’m so tired…
Sonon: (With a patronizing smile) I could carry you.
Yuffie: You win.
The two head toward the elevator. When the two have gone, we see the darkness swirl weakly. The elevator (and a panel that informs us where it’s going) draws into view.
Yuffie: Aha!
Suddenly, Sonon notices a presence approaching from behind. There’s a split second where he processes the threat of this presence, and his expression turns serious. Sonon shoves Yuffie in the back.
Yuffie: Hey, whaddaya think you’re— (doing?)
As Yuffie turns back in protest, Sonon slams his arms against the elevator doors to protect her. It’s the same way he positioned himself to shield her from the crowd when they took the train up to the plate—the stance Sonon takes when he’s protecting Yuffie from something. The darkness draws close to Sonon’s feet, and several sharp objects (Nero’s feathers) shoot out and pierce Sonon’s chest. The tip of one nearly touches Yuffie(‘s face).
Yuffie: Sonon?
It is revealed that Nero has run rampant with “Stagnant Force” and was trying to assault the two, but Sonon covered Yuffie and acted as a shield. Even now, he’s desperately struggling to hold back an unleashed Nero.
Sonon: Go…
With fading strength, Sonon pushes a button on the nearby elevator.
Yuffie: No, I—
Sonon: Please.
Yuffie: But…
Another blade pierces Sonon.
Yuffie: Sonon…?
Sonon: Yuffie… You gotta keep going… for us.
Yuffie: No… Stop it…
The elevator doors behind Yuffie open. Powerless, she backs away onto the elevator.
Yuffie: Sonon!?
Sonon stops holding the doors and lets his arms fall limply at his side. The doors begin to close. Sonon looks up and calmly closes his eyes. Nero’s dark power continues its barrage, Sonon straining to deflect it. The doors shut.
Yuffie: (With an indescribable yell) Ahhhhhhhh!
Now only Sonon remains. He smiles, pleased to see Yuffie got away, and collapses on his knees. He searches his pockets for one of the Dachao beans Yuffie gave him and pops it into his mouth; but he doesn’t have the strength to bite down on it.
Sonon: Damn…
We’re in the recesses of Sonon’s consciousness now. Unlike that time with his younger sister, he’s glad he was able to help Yuffie. A smile spreads across Sonon’s face.
Sonon: Melphie…
He must have been envisioning his younger sister. Slowly, Sonon is enveloped by Nero’s darkness, and fades away.

______

It's interesting to see how this scene differs from the final product—particularly the last section, which only implies a vision of Melphie. In the end we of course got a lovely flashback sequence plus a Lifestream-like glimpse of the real Melphie. There's a note earlier in the Ultimania that Melphie's 3D model was created and added in very late in production, so I'm guessing this script was written before that point. I'm glad they made the effort to add her in. It really adds to the impact of this moment.
 
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TurquoiseHammer

Pro Adventurer
"Stagnant Force," that's an interesting name for what he did during that.

That was interesting, thank you so much for sharing that one!
Oh, right, I was going to make a note about that. Totally my "localization" choice there. It's a specific ability called 《淀みの力》 (literally "Power of Stagnation"). The Ultimania doesn't have a bestiary like the main game's Ultimania, so I can't check to see if it's an attack he can actually use in battle. Based on the literal name, what do you think it is? I was thinking it may have to do with the "power" that builds up (or "stagnates" with disuse) from Nero being restrained for so long. Or maybe it's the power he derives from all the stagnating victims inside his darkness?
 
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Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Okay, the English version calls Nero's power a form of corrupted energy, while the Japanese version is more explicit in defining Nero's power with the same terminology utilized in Dirge of Cerberus.

Nero utilizes the power of Stagnant Lifestream. A power of darkness made from corrupted and stagnated spirit energy, which just so happens to be the same source of Vincent's 4th Limit Break Chaos. So basically, Nero just let his power loose in hopes of dragging down Yuffie and Sonon, but only managed to get Sonon.
 

TurquoiseHammer

Pro Adventurer
Okay, the English version calls Nero's power a form of corrupted energy, while the Japanese version is more explicit in defining Nero's power with the same terminology utilized in Dirge of Cerberus.

Nero utilizes the power of Stagnant Lifestream. A power of darkness made from corrupted and stagnated spirit energy, which just so happens to be the same source of Vincent's 4th Limit Break Chaos. So basically, Nero just let his power loose in hopes of dragging down Yuffie and Sonon, but only managed to get Sonon.
Very badass. Any thoughts on the relation with the Geostigma "Negative Lifestream"?
 
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