The Hobbit

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Note: the CGI looks wwwaaayyy more low quality/videogame-ish in 2D/24fps, and I'm not sure what contributes to it, but I did notice that things stood out awkwardly that blend in seamlessly in the 3D/48fps version.

Also- I think that the molten Gold looks a little wrong to make it more apparent what they did with it, but that's just a guess.



X :neo:
 

Octo

KULT OF KERMITU
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Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
Actually now Yop reminded me, I did think the ending theme of DoS was a bit... Contemporary? Compared with AUJ. Did jarr a little but end theme so who cares.

Also I dont think Kili is tallest, though he is the least dwarvy. I guess that can be explained by how young he is, though it makes me think
hes only 77, so in 200 years time hes gonna look like Gloin? And by the time hes 300 he.ll look like the miner who found the arkenstone :lol: I wonder if Tauriel knows what shes letting herself in for? Ofc thats all academic.
anyway I wouldnt kick him out of bed for farting - to use the parlance of our times :monster:

Right now I'm so enamoured of him and Thorin that I wouldnt care if they went batshit in the 3rd film and deviated from the plot completely :awesome:
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
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TresDias
I actually loved the ending theme, which was a nice surprise after hating the ending theme for the second part of the first trilogy. I also found the lyrics to be a great match.
 

Octo

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Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
It was more the style of the song, not the lyrical content. Ofc I only heard it the once but it did stick out to me.
 

Sprites

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Gems
I really liked the film, I went to see it last week, Smaug is one badass dragon :), my only main concern was:

Legolas.

Maybe it's just me but he felt incredibly out of character,why put him in at all if you're going to change his character to the point where I went...I'm not sure I like this Legolas it's like a different character. Since when did Legolas have this arrogant, nasty streak in him? Yes alright the Dwarves are in Mirkwood, they hate eachother blah blah blah, but really, this is the same Legolas who becomes best friends with Gimli?

In LOTR he wasn't as nearly as hostile to Gimli as he is to the dwarves in this, he had outside of battle a much gentler nature, he's not even overly hostile to Gimli in the books either before they become friends (their friendship is one of my favourite relationships in the book) and because I love listening to the Cast commentaries of LOTR and recently watched FOTR with cast commentary on, Orlando Bloom himself said during the council of Elrond they wanted Legolas to act almost like a peace maker with his fellow elves after Gimli's comment about the ring going with the elves instead of trying to fight with the dwarves, so it makes his character feel like he's done a 180'. I'm just wondering if he'll learn a thing or two from Tauriel as she has much more an understanding and tolerance towards the dwarves than the rest of the elves or if he and her participate in the Battle of the Five Armies which I have no doubt they will, will working together with Dwarves calm him down a bit and make him less prejudiced.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
It was more the style of the song, not the lyrical content. Ofc I only heard it the once but it did stick out to me.

You don't like country folk music, I guess. =P

I really liked the film, I went to see it last week, Smaug is one badass dragon :), my only main concern was:

Legolas.

Maybe it's just me but he felt incredibly out of character,why put him in at all if you're going to change his character to the point where I went...I'm not sure I like this Legolas it's like a different character. Since when did Legolas have this arrogant, nasty streak in him? Yes alright the Dwarves are in Mirkwood, they hate eachother blah blah blah, but really, this is the same Legolas who becomes best friends with Gimli?

In LOTR he wasn't as nearly as hostile to Gimli as he is to the dwarves in this, he had outside of battle a much gentler nature, he's not even overly hostile to Gimli in the books either before they become friends (their friendship is one of my favourite relationships in the book) and because I love listening to the Cast commentaries of LOTR and recently watched FOTR with cast commentary on, Orlando Bloom himself said during the council of Elrond they wanted Legolas to act almost like a peace maker with his fellow elves after Gimli's comment about the ring going with the elves instead of trying to fight with the dwarves, so it makes his character feel like he's done a 180'. I'm just wondering if he'll learn a thing or two from Tauriel as she has much more an understanding and tolerance towards the dwarves than the rest of the elves or if he and her participate in the Battle of the Five Armies which I have no doubt they will, will working together with Dwarves calm him down a bit and make him less prejudiced.

I'm sure he will be less prejudiced by the next film's end, but he still was a bit in the first LotR movie. He gave Gimli a fierce stare at one point and commented "Why doesn't that surprise me?" when it was said that Dwarf doors can be so well protected even their own masters may forget how to enter.
 

Octo

KULT OF KERMITU
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Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
Like Foster and Allen? No :monster: really Id probably be ok if I heard it again. Actually I can't remeber lotr having different ending themes, I just thought it was all enya :monst
@Sprites. Dont forget his dad is a big
racist against dwarves. They had some beef in the past. So thats how hes been brought up. And to top it all hes been cockblocked by a sexy dwarf! Plus hes 60 years younger so maybe he mellowed as he aged :monster:
 
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Sprites

Waiting for something
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Gems
Oh I know he's quite hostile to Gimli, but he just doesn't give it off as much in LOTR books and film as he did in DOS. I'm not saying he has to be exactly the same as his LOTR characterisation, there is after all 60 odd years difference between The Hobbit and LOTR but he just feels completely different. I've always liked Legolas, he alongside Merry and Pippin are my 3 favourite characters in the books, always have been and I just can't believe that DOS has made me dislike one of my favourite characters.

Speaking of Legolas, some of the fanfiction that floats around about that poor elf, makes me want to wallop someone around the head with a hard leather bound copy of LOTR to knock some sense into them for creating such disgraceful literature.

@Octo: FOTR was done by Enya (May it Be), she also did Aniron (Arwen and Aragorn's love song)
TT was done by Emiliana Torrini (Gollum's song) which I didn't like
ROTK was done by Annie Lennox (Into the West) and it won an oscar:monster:

I imagine Legolas was influenced by his father but still, at least Thranduil was in the book and is an arse there too, I really liked his characterisation actually
 
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Octo

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Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
XD"

Oh the fanfics. I think it's time to revisit "Legolas by Laura."
 

Sprites

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Gems
I actually read a really good one Called Never Leave Fanfiction lying around, it's one of those ones where the LOTR characters find a god awful MS written story and shred it to pieces, it's very funny.
 

Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
This has got to be the greatest HISHE ever.



"I don't know, I'm not even supposed to be in this story!"
 

T@ctic

Pro Adventurer
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Orah, Iju
Tell her to read the appendices from Return of the King, and it'll start to make sense.



X :neo:

yea she's been knowing that. :P but it just didnt fit for her. she said they just shouldn't have added it.



movie wise

awesomeness. i saw it dec. 30, so that was 3 (4?) weeks ago. i find it great we can see the magical but oh-so-real world of Tolkein. Jackson hasnt lost his imagination of Middle-Earth at all. i really liked the elves being involved (although in the back of my head im almost sure they didnt appear in the book) and legolas was nearly as epic as he was in LOTR (come on, who else thought that was cool? :P). the elf girl he crushed on....well i found no problem with that . legolas likes a girl. *shrugs* its not such a big deal. his eyes were brighter but they were awesome too :P once of my favorite parts was the barrels, and i could see Jackson tried to make it as real as possible; it worked - was sick of the water by the time they came out i was a little disappointing
unnamed_zps9979a351.jpg
scene didnt happen; i wanted to see how it would turn out :( well i havent been told dont listen to marketing for nothing XD finger crossed it happens in the next movie though.

one of the things i found peculiar in the elf part of the movie was that we see legolas...but where was aragorn? im trying to figure out the exact gap between the Bilbo's adventure and the LOTR so i can understand if aragorn was born at the time or not. but i have my bets he would most likely would have been born and been late teen/early adult at that time. if legolas was going to be in the movie at all (which he wasn't supposed to)they could have at least brought him in; where ever legolas is, he is.

my second (and final) favorite part - which is probably my very favorite, it wont lie - was the dragon. he scared the EVERYTHING out of me. his appearance was terrifyingly captivating, and the more captivated i was, the more it got harder for me to look away. if nothing else convinces you to look at it, look at it for the dragon - THE BEST PART OF THE MOVIE.

what i found myself rather disappointing with the film was the CGI. the orcs were almost always generated, and it didnt seem fair to the orcs that were real in the LOTR. there were some parts that had to be generated - the bear, the spiders, the dragon of course - but the orcs could have at least been real. it looked like Jackson didnt have enough money or he was just lazy.

what i really didnt like was the elf girl (i keep forgetting her name goshdarnit). not that legolas like her;that was fine, iv'e said that already. but the elfxdwarf....im sorry it just annoyed me. now even though i dont like couples this wouldnt be a problem for me - if her lover wasnt a dwarf. it was a bit unrealistic for me that she liked him - almost immediately - and was willing to disobey over 500 years of loyalty to a guy of a rave elves are all supposed to hate. and at that she just met him (at best) a week ago. then, knowing legolas would follow her (taking advantage of his attraction towards her, is what it looked like to me), she would have someone to support her on her crazy adventure. yes, the dwarf was hurt, but it doesnt make sense. all elves hate dwarves. there really wasnt a good reason for the elf girl to think otherwise. and then she goes and contradicts herself. she hides her attraction/growing love (maybe?) by saying "it is our fight".

when the two save the family and the hobbits logolas is yelling at her (twice!) for her to come on. she doesnt even follow him, and legolas got his can kicked. if he would be angry with her later on i wouldnt blame him.

"You drag me along, disobey your allegiances with our land, tell me 'it's our fight' and then you just leave me like this?! Seriously? I'Mdoing these things on YOURbehalf, and you dont even help me with YOUR plan!"

and shes pretty and all....but she wouldnt exactly fit for elf beauty ._. then they tried to make her even more beautiful by the light and everything but it just didnt ring with me. Lady Galadrial pwns all.

the movie was great, and i guess i'd have to be grateful because you can ignore the elfxdwarf parts; they arent shown in the movie that much. but maybe its me and my couples hatred that's getting in the way and its not a such a big deal :/

also is it just me or did Bilbo barely get any facetime/talking after the barrels and before the dragon?

sooooooooooooo i think i'll just give the boopity a 3 1/2 out of 5.



book wise

it has absolutely nothing to do with the book.

well, hardly

one of my mother's favorite parts in the books was when Bilbo had to fight a spider in the dark all by himself. he cant see it but in the end he kills it. its a huge piece a character development and yet its not in the movie. bilbo got some character development in the first one, but not so much to me in this one (besides the barrels and Smaug). perhaps if Jackson added it it might have been much better.

she (my mom) also points out the bilbo and his friends were captured by elves, but they were entirely different ones. wood elves, i think, is what she says they were called. these elves (along with all, but im just talking about these) detest dwarves, and if they had even dreamed of being with them it would be more of a nightmare. Tolkein set it up so there would be absolutely no room for what the movie showed. there wasnt even any holes for them to even be allies UNTIL THAT ONE MOMENT when legolas teams up with gimli. so not only do they include the wrong elves (which isnt such a big deal with me), they make this absolutely impossible chemistry between these to which - in Middle Earth reality - would never come to exist. and the same for the dwarves, too. this hatred towards each other lasted for hundreds of years in the least, making it cultural; because legolas and gimli have next to no reason to hate each other if not that they were raised on it.

there was a small (or big, depending on how big of a fan you are of Tolkein) point my brother pointed out in the movie: the part with the barrels. it was a huge disrespect for dwarves to be "rolling around" and so he was furious at bilbo, although he possibly just saved all of their lives. not sure this would bring down a star, but just sayin'.


oh and the part when gandalf gets in a fight with the orcs and he sees the Eye and the whole thing when he gets captured?

never happened.

what actually happened was gandalf would meet with the elf queen, saruman, and a few others to discuss a few things (the reason excapes me a the mo). at some point "the sorcerer" (saron) comes, but gandalf and co. shoo him off; that was how he made mordor and inc. :P

saron wasnt even half the point of the story; in fact at best he cameoed twice in the entire book, and even then once it was a mention and the other was not even 4 pages. we didnt even know his name - his was simply called "the sorcerer". we know nothing of his power (if he even had any at this point) and most definitely nothing of him. so i wonder how Jackson is going to write gandalf out of this predicament, because this just seems very lost to me.

the hobbit was (is) a book very close to my mom's soul, and so she wasnt exactly not picky. she just didnt understand the little parts in the movie. for example, gimli's reference ("my nephew [or was it son?]!") or saron's appearance in the Eye (although that was freaking awesome and horrifying to me). she was already disappointed with the first one, and now that she has seen this one, im not sure she wants to see the final.


the one thing she gave a massive 5 star thumbs up was the dragon; she could just go on and on about it! and i must agree; as not only scaring the everything out of me, i literally didnt swallow in quite a time for i dont know, and so when i swallowed i choked the hardest i had ever did! luckily it was a very loud moment so i didnt get embarrassed. :P

i can decide which is the worst part of him; the sheer body mass, the close ups on his monstrous mouth, his terrible eyes, or his dark, booming ominous voice (which was voice acted by Khan of the recent star trek). and the fire! i wasnt sure which was worse - the fire starting in his belly or the actual flamed coming out.

my mom says that her scariest part when bilbo and his friends were beside the colons and smaug just blasted the hellfire through, but i cant wrap my mind around my scariest *shudders*

she also says that the fighting of the dragon never happened but made an exception: people need action in a movie like this. anyway, she says, the dragon looked so good. she thinks Tolkein would have been very approved of smaug.

im certainly glad i saw it im the movies, though. smaug's perfect sound quality was bouncing off the walls in such a special was i know that if i re-watched it on DVD it wouldnt have 1/12 of the effect.

but im thankful. very much, in fact. i was too late for all of the LOTR to see them in the movies - and i was at a point in my life when i couldnt have possibly cared anyway. but now when i look even at the extended editions, i feel a pang of regret; i still want to see them not only in the theatre, but for the first time. i wanted to be in on the LOTR havoc and fan risings and such. i still do. i really do hope they reshow them in the movies; not only would it give out even more money, it would just be so epic for all of those who missed out. for instance a friend of mine had "never liked" the lord of the rings and never watched any movies until for my brother's brithday, when the first hobbit came out, he was invited to see it. now he absolutely loves it, and wants to look at all LOTR related movies. so you can guess he was pretty pissed when he learned i, two of my brothers, and my father went to go see it without an invitation (but it couldnt have been helped, my father had taken us as a surprise so we didnt have a chance to invite him. now to only stop him thinking about Harry Potter like he once did with the lord of the rings.......).

am i fully satisfied of the hobbit? im going to have to tell the truth, no. but im ever so thankful this movie is out (and continuing) and i can be in Middle Earth before it all ends. the LOT had three movies, and so does the hobbit. so im not sure about my mom, but ill make sure ill see the final part of the Middle Earth universe, and i'll be as excited as the LOTR fans when they saw all of their three movies, back in the early 2000s. and its freaking Tolkein, and i'd rather Jackson, who's imagination has already been proven to be incredible, do this movies before anyone else.

so ill be seeing you guys this year of whatever year the next one comes out (of course i wont :P), the final production of the Tolkein world will stop, and im sure i'll be proud to say i looked at all of the hobbit movies years later, because i was in on it.


i (finally!) wont miss the next ticket.
 
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Roger

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Minato
I'm pretty sure that Aragorn is way older then Bilbo, who is 33 during his adventure. He's served under Boromir's grandfather in Gondor, Theoden's father in Rohan, he's been to East, South and simply walked into Mordor. He was a busy guy. And he does not pal around with Legolas before the Fellowship is formed. He pals around with Arwen's two brothers. Legolas kinda takes their place in the movie.

And you're wrong about the wood elves, Tolkien uses a different word for them after LOTR solidified all the mythology but Legolas IS of the same elves that imprisoned the dwarves. He had not been created at the time of the Hobbit but when he is relating his story of how they treated Gollum to the Council of Elrond, Gloin, Gimli's father speaks up about how much douchier he and his folk were back in the day.

Gotta agree with you about the elf girl, she hasn't changed at all from when she was Kate in Lost has she?
 

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
Aragorn would be a teenager or younger in Rivendell during The Hobbit, he was about 70-80 during LOTR.

Frodo is 33 when Bilbo leaves Hobbiton in the book, but he's closer to 50 by the actual time of LOTR. Probably younger in the movie.

And Bilbo is 51 during the Hobbit. (Interestingly, this isn't the stereotypical clueless farmboy, it's middle aged gentry going on an adventure.)

That's going by the books, not sure about the movies.
 

Cthulhu

Administrator
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Yop
Yeah, now you mention it; in the case of Frodo in the book, he gets the ring, chucks it in an envelope, and forgets about it for like a decade or two. In the movie it's more like a day or two, if that, :monster:. But then, passage of time is difficult in movies, especially if you don't really want to age the characters too much. Was it him or Bilbo that was 50ish in the books? Or both, even?

idk, Hollywood will go NO U at a middle-aged main character. Unless it's James Bond.
 

Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
Yeah, now you mention it; in the case of Frodo in the book, he gets the ring, chucks it in an envelope, and forgets about it for like a decade or two. In the movie it's more like a day or two, if that, :monster:. But then, passage of time is difficult in movies, especially if you don't really want to age the characters too much. Was it him or Bilbo that was 50ish in the books? Or both, even?

idk, Hollywood will go NO U at a middle-aged main character. Unless it's James Bond.

Gandalf rides to Minas Tirith and back to confirm it is the One Ring, so even in the movie a few months probably passed in between his visits (or maybe weeks) but yeah, it is very compressed from how it is in the books.

Of course, Hobbits age a little slower than humans. 33 for them is the equivalent of 18 for humans. So a 50-year old hobbit might be the equivalent of a human in the mid-thirties, maybe.
 

Sprites

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Gems
Alright, as there seems to be confusion over ages and stuff, I went and grabbed my copy of ROTK which also holds The appendices so here's the information about events in the timeline taken directly from The Appendices

Bilbo is born on the year 2890, The Hobbit is set between the year 2941-2942 making Bilbo 51 when he started on his journey

Aragorn was born on the year 2931 making him only 10-11 during the events of the The Hobbit

Frodo was born on the year 2968, he also shares the same birthday as Bilbo.

Biblo officially leaves the shire on the year 3001, Frodo is 33 when this happens.

Frodo officially sets out and leaves the Shire 17 years later on 23 September 3018, this makes him 50 when he sets out, pretty much the same age as Bilbo was when he set out on his journey. This also makes Aragorn 87 by the time Frodo meets him, they also acknowledged this in the extended edition of TTT during a conversation between Aragorn and Eowyn.

Also a hobbit aged 50 is roughly the equivalent of human in their mid twenties so they're still quite young in that respective

Finally Sméagol AKA Gollum found the ring on the year 2463, so if we take it that he was maybe around the same age as Frodo or Bilbo upon finding the ring, Gollum is at least 700 years old by the time he meets Frodo. I think it's just by sheer force of will and want to get the ring back that Gollum stays alive after being separated from the ring for so long, because when Bilbo is parted from the ring, it's implied in the book and shown in the film that his age catches up on him quite quickly.

chewbaka said:
the final production of the Tolkein world will stop, and im sure i'll be proud to say i looked at all of the hobbit movies years later, because i was in on it.

Never say never to them making a film out of The Silmarillion, I would love that to happen actually, although it would have to be done carefully because The Silmarillion is more like a collection of short stories going down through the earlier history of Arda rather than just one story although The Silmaril play a great part in the entire overall settings of the book.
 

T@ctic

Pro Adventurer
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Orah, Iju
wow thanks everyone for the information of the ages and everything :D i appreciate it greatly. its amazing you guys even read through my extremely typoed post XD

I'm pretty sure that Aragorn is way older then Bilbo, who is 33 during his adventure. He's served under Boromir's grandfather in Gondor, Theoden's father in Rohan, he's been to East, South and simply walked into Mordor. He was a busy guy. And he does not pal around with Legolas before the Fellowship is formed. He pals around with Arwen's two brothers. Legolas kinda takes their place in the movie.

well i wasnt trying to ask if aragorn was older, i was just asking was he alive. i kinda had a feeling he was according to that thing he has that makes him live longer or something. :P

And you're wrong about the wood elves, Tolkien uses a different word for them after LOTR solidified all the mythology but Legolas IS of the same elves that imprisoned the dwarves. He had not been created at the time of the Hobbit but when he is relating his story of how they treated Gollum to the Council of Elrond, Gloin, Gimli's father speaks up about how much douchier he and his folk were back in the day.

in truthfulness i know a little about the book, and i got the info from my mom :P really i have no idea what elves caught them XD

and that story about how they treated gollum...seems similar to the story of sirius talking to harry about kreacher. :?

Gotta agree with you about the elf girl, she hasn't changed at all from when she was Kate in Lost has she?

......i know next to 1% about lost but i get what you mean :D

Alright, as there seems to be confusion over ages and stuff, I went and grabbed my copy of ROTK which also holds The appendices so here's the information about events in the timeline taken directly from The Appendices

Bilbo is born on the year 2890, The Hobbit is set between the year 2941-2942 making Bilbo 51 when he started on his journey

Aragorn was born on the year 2931 making him only 10-11 during the events of the The Hobbit

Frodo was born on the year 2968, he also shares the same birthday as Bilbo.

Biblo officially leaves the shire on the year 3001, Frodo is 33 when this happens.

Frodo officially sets out and leaves the Shire 17 years later on 23 September 3018, this makes him 50 when he sets out, pretty much the same age as Bilbo was when he set out on his journey. This also makes Aragorn 87 by the time Frodo meets him, they also acknowledged this in the extended edition of TTT during a conversation between Aragorn and Eowyn.

Also a hobbit aged 50 is roughly the equivalent of human in their mid twenties so they're still quite young in that respective

Finally Sméagol AKA Gollum found the ring on the year 2463, so if we take it that he was maybe around the same age as Frodo or Bilbo upon finding the ring, Gollum is at least 700 years old by the time he meets Frodo. I think it's just by sheer force of will and want to get the ring back that Gollum stays alive after being separated from the ring for so long, because when Bilbo is parted from the ring, it's implied in the book and shown in the film that his age catches up on him quite quickly.

thanks a lot. like, a lot. :D

Never say never to them making a film out of The Silmarillion, I would love that to happen actually, although it would have to be done carefully because The Silmarillion is more like a collection of short stories going down through the earlier history of Arda rather than just one story although The Silmaril play a great part in the entire overall settings of the book.

you read through my typoed post too?! O:

well what i really meant was the world of the LOTR was going to end and i would be happy to say i was in on it. :D

but still.....i dunno. maybe peter doesnt like the rest of the Tolkein world as much as Rings, which can be backed up based on the considerable low care of The Hobbit movies, plus the feeling you have when you look at The Hobbit and the LOTR. the LOTR just had a lot more love and....dedication to it. The Hobbit - and i hate saying this because i love peter - looks like just a lazy attempt to get in on cash. maybe he did want to place the hobbit on as much love as he did his other movies, but it just didnt work out and it just looked like a cash cow. i'd be willing to defend him on some fair points, but it really just looks like money to me. i mean on the interviews in the DVDs he always talks about reading them when he was 17, but never has he mentioned the hobbit. i know, its not required, but if he had the same love for it, it would come out one way or another.

but, like i said in my other post, i'll be pre-pre-pre-pre ordering the tickets to the third one :D
 

The Twilight Mexican

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AKA
TresDias
I think it would be hard to recreate the exact magic of the LotR films for Peter Jackson and crew or audiences. I think the love is clearly still there, but that Jackson feels a bit more relaxed than he did back then and more willing to have a little fun.
 

T@ctic

Pro Adventurer
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Orah, Iju
I think it would be hard to recreate the exact magic of the LotR films for Peter Jackson and crew or audiences. I think the love is clearly still there, but that Jackson feels a bit more relaxed than he did back then and more willing to have a little fun.

you know, that does make sense....you might be right on that.

also:

lotr_wallpaper_by_yuuza-d5sbv8v_zpsbacbd2c9.jpg


legolas_by_yuuza-d61tpq0_zps8e838efa.jpg


your welcome :monster:
 

Sprites

Waiting for something
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Gems
@Chewbaka

The Mirkwood elves actually treated Gollum quite kindly, too kindly and because of that Gollum was able to escape, their treatment of the dwarves however, not so kindly.

Sirius never treated Kreacher all that well in HP it was Hermione and Dumbledore that suggested to Harry that he should be kinder to Kreacher, unless that's what you meant and got your people mixed up?
 

T@ctic

Pro Adventurer
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Orah, Iju
@Chewbaka

The Mirkwood elves actually treated Gollum quite kindly, too kindly and because of that Gollum was able to escape, their treatment of the dwarves however, not so kindly.

Sirius never treated Kreacher all that well in HP it was Hermione and Dumbledore that suggested to Harry that he should be kinder to Kreacher, unless that's what you meant and got your people mixed up?

yup thats just me

screwing things up and not getting the point :monster:

really? i didnt know gollum was with the elves at all O:
 

Sprites

Waiting for something
AKA
Gems
Yeah, he was found by Gandalf and Aragorn and they gave him over to Thranduil and his people.

The elves took pity on him and let him out of the dungeons with a Guard from time to time, they were attacked and Gollum escaped in the confusion, he ends up in Moria actually from trying to escape from being hunted by both Elves and Sauron's servants, in the end he supposedly becomes trapped there until the fellowship shows up.
 
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