Eh, might as well finally respond to this shit.
You act as though Cloud and Tifa decided to form a family together, had two children, and moved to a house with a white picket
fence. If that happened, it *WOULD* be an indication of a romantic relationship. Unfortunately, that's not what happened. Cloud, Tifa, *AND* Barret
decided to form a family together and re-establish Seventh Heaven. Barret helped form this family and helped with the re-building of Seventh Heaven. After
Barret helped form this family and re-build Seventh Heaven, he went away.
That's not what happened either. No, Cloud and Tifa don't have the picket fence, and they took in the two children out of circumstance rather than intent,
but they DID form a family together. Barret did not form it with them, nor is he included in it nor does he include himself in it.
And before you give me motherfucking shit about him still being Marlene's dad, we've been over this, he still is, and he's still part of HER family, but
he's NOT part of Cloud and Tifa's seventh heaven family.
"After visiting various locations with Tifa and Barret, Tifa opened the “Seventh Heaven” bar.
Before setting off on a journey, Barret left Marlene in Cloud and Tifa’s care, and the three of them began living together."
~FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania Cloud Strife Profile
The three of them [Cloud, Tifa, Marlene] began living as a family because Barret left. If Barren't hadn't left, all four of them would have been living
together as a family.
Or Barret would have set up a house with Marlene. You are attempting to set up a pretty solid false dichotomy. Barret's walkabout was partly motivated by
a desire to give Cloud and Tifa their own space in addition to attempting to sort out his own issues of how to be productive in the new society everyone
found themselves in.
Stop making it seem as though Cloud and Tifa got married, found the perfect little house in suburbia, and then adopted children. As much as you
wish that happened... it didn't
Stop making it seem like I'm making it seem like that. This is something I openly loathe about you, BB, you can't ever seem to let an argument go without
some transparent strawman.
If Nomura has "no clue" if they are in a relationship, and if SE decided to provide Cloud a place to sleep in his room, there is no way you can be
certain they are in a romantic relationship.
Yes there is. Because Nomura pre-AC can know nothing, while Nomura Post AC can know that the movie tells us about their relationship. Nojima can tell us
Cloud and Tifa belong together. They can tell us things like Cloud and Tifa formed a family, have a future together, are the mother and father of a
relationship, that she is someone's beloved. They can tell us things and we can be certain because we're not fucking idiots, just like we could be certain
of Squall's parentage in FF8 long before it was explicitly confirmed.
OK. Then it's relevant? Bottom line: SE tells us Aerith loves Cloud more than Zack and that although she initially liked Cloud because of Zack, she
eventually grew to like Cloud for Cloud.
If you mean post-mortem, then sure. Otherwise, she died liking Cloud despite not knowing the real cloud.
What I'm saying is that Nojima speaks of things not going well between Cloud and Tifa and questions if even Marlene and Denzel will be able to help them sort through their issues. There's no proof they ever worked through their issues, therefore leaving it uncertain if they are in a romantic relationship.
Your logic does not follow. That they have issues- issues, BTW, which are mostly to do with Cloud's PTSD and survivor's guilt- does not preclude them having a romantic relationship, nor does them not working through their issues preclude such.
And yes, I know Nojima doesn't guarantee things would have gone better with Aerith. But as I've stated previously, this is why I personally think things
would have gone better with Aerith:
1. Nojima says that perhaps things would have gone well with Aerith in contrast to things not going well with Tifa. That hints to me that things would
have gone better with Aerith given the juxtaposition.
...But Aerith has her own issues. So maybe not. This is another issue you have. Lots of selective quoting.
2. Just look at Cloud and Aerith's dynamic together. To me, Cloud and Aerith's dynamic suggests things would have gone better between them.
And to other people, it does not. Opinions and Assholes, etc.
My point is that Cloud visited Aerith's Church before having geostigma. Why did he do so?
To get forgiveness for his sins of letting her and Zack die, and for his sin of being the one to live, and enjoying his life while feeling unworthy to be living it.
It's such common knowledge that Cloud had feelings for Aerith, people even make jokes about it.
Argumentum ad Image Macro isn't exactly compelling, because contrary to humor, Marche isn't a sociopath who deliberately wants to fuck over his best friends, he's just really shit at expressing some seriously heady concepts to other children.
And there are a metric shitton of jokes about Tifa giving Cloud the bedroom eyes at the end of ACC. By your logic, that means everyone recognizes that they're gonna have some fantastic makeup sex after the movie ends.
"First off, there’s the premise that things won’t go well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without Geostigma or Sephiroth this
might be the same." ~Nojima
So, obviously the issues between Cloud and Tifa are not solely a result of Geostigma or Sephiroth. We can also see that when observing CoT and FFVII.
(And yes, I know he uses the word "might" -- but come on, let's just be honest here.)
Bottom line: what is the proof Cloud and Tifa sorted through their problems? To me, it appears as though they haven't and aren't in a committed
relationship. Any evidence that they've sorted through their problems...?
Firstly, as mentioned above, your premise is entirely flawed. Them having issues does not preclude a romantic relationship, nor would them not working through said issues. Secondly, yes, there are, including the fact that they talk about said problem during AC and Cloud is confirmed to return to live with her where he belongs at the end of the movie, the fact that they have a future together, etc. Thirdly, most of their issues resolve from Cloud's long standing guilt and idea that he does not deserve happiness, and that he should be punished for his past failings.
So, yeah, try not attacking a strawman, BB. It does wonders.