Fairheartstrife
[no fucks given]
- AKA
- FHS, that cloti bitch
Tifa: "Just a little longer, Cloud. I need to wallow in my rejection..."
Cute throw back scene though ^^ <3
Cute throw back scene though ^^ <3
um...... I don't think being in love with two people makes you an asshole.......unless we're also supposed to think that Locke in FF6 is an asshole?
You're still kinda generalizing arguments here. Someone could be Clerith solely by the idea that they believed at one time Cloud loved Aerith. That doesn't mean he doesn't love Tifa as well or exclude her in any way, but it's one way of looking at it. It'd be the same as me saying 'Cloti!Cloud is a pervert who sneaks around stealing underwear!' when not everyone views that particular scene as wholly canon.Clerith!Cloud is kinda of a douche, imo.
I found this on Tumblr.
If the Ultimania's are not enough, then this should be it. Both of the love scenes are by a airship, and Rinoa says something identical to Tifa's quote to Cloud underneath the HA. I think that this shows, that SE does see the HA scene between Cloud and Tifa really important and special. Rinoa and Squall may be completely different people and have different situations from Cloud and Tifa, but giving FF8 a familiar moment to Cloud and Tifa's night underneath the Highwind, shows that HA is special to SE, and it's just not a sudden or random moment. Also, both Tifa and Rinoa get closer to their loved ones, after the say the same quote. I don't think that just happens to be that way. I do think that this helps show that the high affection is canon.
I could be wrong though.
You're still kinda generalizing arguments here. Someone could be Clerith solely by the idea that they believed at one time Cloud loved Aerith. That doesn't mean he doesn't love Tifa as well or exclude her in any way, but it's one way of looking at it.
And everybody knows Cloud is a perv.
Cloud at Costa de sol:, he'd never display any perverted behaviour
Trouble is, the two people realizing mutual romantic feelings under the stars is completely optional. SE even says it's optional, and has never declared a default or canon outcome for that scene except in your imagination. YOU accept one version as canon, but it is not canon according to the standards of a great many people outside of TLS.Or, for example, two people realizing mutual romantic feelings, then confirming these mutual romantic feelings under the stars, moving in with each other, forming a family together, belonging with each other, and having a future together.Chantara wrote: Ryu
You mean, for example, a non-optional scene where Cloud kisses Tifa or says, "I love you" to her or anything like that? Something that would actually confirm that Cloti is canon?
Once again, it's only official in your opinion. Your opinion is not shared by many other people outside of this forum.You know what is official? The high version is one of the four most important scenes in Final Fantasy 7.Right now, all you've got is an optional scene and SE has made it clear that both versions of that optional scene are possible. They've only made the HA version canon in your opinion - there's nothing official about it.
You know what else is official? Cloud and Tifa confirm mutual romantic feelings with each other. Not in any particular version, that's just what happens. If that can only occur in one version, then only one version can happen.
A canon that you created, not SE.And I've killed Shadow when I played Final Fantasy VI. He lives according to the canon. The event where he dies does not happen in the narrative, even though it happened in my game.You just contradicted yourself - one happens and the other does not? Sorry, but the LA version has happened several times while I've played the game.
Sorry, I don't consider a story summary to be enough evidence. It needs to happen in the actual game or movie or novella before I believe it. The trouble with your story summary evidence is that what happens in the game/movie/novella can contradict what you accept as canon, such as Cloud having a separate bedroom.A story summary is a summary of a story. Putting one in there is an indication that that's the story.Putting one in the summary means that it CAN happen, not that it DOES happen. If SE wanted the HA version to happen all the time, then they would have made it non-optional.
Nope, it isn't enough now that someone has informed me that Shadow doesn't actually appear in the game after the death scene. I was assuming that he was seen in the game. If he doesn't appear in the game, then I don't accept a picture of him in a story summary as evidence that he survives.But it IS enough to convince you that Shadow remained alive. At times. When you're not insisting that it can't. You seem to flip flop on that subject a lot.No, it's not sufficient. I want confirmation of a point that's been debated since 1997, and using one version instead of another in a story summary isn't enough to convince me that it's canon.
And I find your need to constantly find evidence outside of the Compilation to prove your point ridiculous. Try using evidence from the Compilation for a change.Not at all. For one, he said he didn't know about their relationship, not if they were involved or not. For two, if Nomura not knowing ruins the idea of canon entirely, you have just made the Star Wars prequels non-existent. But youve also made episodes 5 and 6 nonexistent too. As a long time Warsie, I must say, your concept of 'not canon because it wasn't always in the story' is patently nonsense, to put it quite generously.No, it's not a double standard when Nomura says things like he doesn't know if Cloud and Tifa were romantically involved before AC/ACC. That contradicts your idea of "canon" right there.
And it's YOUR assumption that they DON'T have separate bedrooms. That makes my interpretation as valid as yours.You keep repeating that they have different bedrooms, but this is simply YOUR assumption.And like I said before, your idea of "canon" is contradicted by other things, such as quotes in both the U20 on page 232 and on page 198 in the FFVIIUO where it says that the story diverges into two conditions according to Tifa's affection level with Cloud. It's also contradicted by things such as Cloud and Tifa having separate bedrooms in CoT, and Tifa not knowing whether Cloud loves her in CoT.
Just because one optional scene has a canon outcome doesn't mean that all optional scenes have a canon outcome. When I see more evidence in the actual games/movies/novellas that can apply to either side, then I think the option is what's canon.You keep asserting that a story divergance means that this scene can't be canon, but you admit other scenes with divergences HAVE CANON OUTCOMES.
IF/THEN means that the outcome diverges according to Tifa's affection level with Cloud.In addition, even with the noting of story divergences, we have 8 instances, including another quote on p232 where we're told what happens that evening. An IF/THEN does not negate there being an official outcome.
I see you behaving in the exact same way.Yes, we know. You remain willfully obdurate against the evidence.You can make convenient "excuses" for all those things, but sorry - I don't buy any of them.
Only in your opinion. In my opinion (and many other people) CloudxAerith is supported better by the evidence than CloudxTifa. Your opinion is not fact.Even if I grant ALL of that arguendo, it's still in a superior argumentative position than C/A.That's the thing - I've repeated myself numerous times now. Cloti has only been confirmed in your opinion, but you're stating it as fact. It is NOT fact because it has not been confirmed in any way by SE. It was not confirmed by anything that happened after the HW scene in FFVII, it was not confirmed by anything in AC or ACC, it was not confirmed by anything in the novella's, and it was not confirmed by anything in DoC.
Only in your opinion. SE has not confirmed your opinion.But you know what, it HAS been confirmed by SE. Cloud and Tifa's confirmation has been listed as happening, period, end of speech, on the page dedicated to romantic confessions.
Shows how well you know my thoughts on the subject. Ask Quex if I think CxA is canon. She knows I don't.And please, don't give me any of this 'neither is canon' nonsense, we both know full well that you don't believe that and a quick look at your site or your forums will reveal you think C/A actually happens.
Both pictures have a page number at the top:The picture was not labeled has having a divergence. The page lists no divergence.I won't believe it until SE confirms it, and neither will the other members of my forum. I think the FTOIL page actually said that who Cloud loves is up to player choice. There was a picture of both CloudxAerith and CloudxTifa under a title saying that love develops between the protagonists. Both the CloudxAerith and CloudxTifa pictures were labeled as having Divergences. They are the ONLY pictures on the page labeled as having Divergences.
But the page number is given at the top of the picture, so it is clearly intended as information that should be included - not ignored.You must head to a different page entirely and even then look in a side bar and not the story section to find the mention of divergence. THE C/T quote, like those of all the other entries on the page from FFIII to FFX contains no mention of divergence.
Depends entirely on your interpretation. I think Cloud declares romance for Aerith several times during the game, and that Cloud's love and devotion for Aerith is more than clear in AC/ACC.No. It isn't. Because even IF C/T is entirely optional, there is no choice to have Cloud declare any sort of romance for Aerith as he does for Tifa in the Highwind scene.The answer is simple. That means that who Cloud loves is up to the player.
I'm using it as a last resort to get through to you.Let it be known for the benefit of all and sundry that Anastar is willfully admitting to Broken Record debating tactics.From now on, I'm merely going to copy/paste this answer in instead of answering each of your questions individually, because the same answer applies to most things you guys bring up.
Heh... so you use an insult to try and distract people from what I've actually said.In other words, folks, any time Anastar gets uncomfortable with thinking too hard about what we say, she's going to retreat into a broken record canned response.Your evidence is contradicted when Nomura says things like he doesn't know if Cloud and Tifa were romantically involved before AC/ACC. That contradicts your idea of "canon" right there. And like I said before, your idea of "canon" is contradicted by other things, such as quotes in both the U20 on page 232 and on page 198 in the FFVIIUO where it says that the story diverges into two conditions according to Tifa's affection level with Cloud. It's also contradicted by things such as Cloud and Tifa having separate bedrooms in CoT, and Tifa not knowing whether Cloud loves her in CoT.
You can make convenient "excuses" for all those things, but sorry - I don't buy any of them.
That's the thing - I've repeated myself numerous times now. Cloti has only been confirmed in your opinion, but you're stating it as fact. It is NOT fact because it has not been confirmed in any way by SE. It was not confirmed by anything that happened after the HW scene in FFVII, it was not confirmed by anything in AC or ACC, it was not confirmed by anything in the novella's, and it was not confirmed by anything in DoC,
I won't believe it until SE confirms it, and neither will the other members of my forum. We think the FTOIL page actually said that who Cloud loves is up to player choice. There was a picture of both CloudxAerith and CloudxTifa under a title saying that love develops between the protagonists. Both the CloudxAerith and CloudxTifa pictures were labeled as having Divergences. They are the ONLY pictures on the page labeled as having Divergences.
The answer is simple. That means that who Cloud loves is up to the player. CloudxAerith is just as valid an interpretation as CloudxTifa.
From now on, I'm merely going to copy/paste this answer in instead of answering each of your questions individually, because the same answer applies to most things you guys bring up.
Nomura says things like he doesn't know if Cloud and Tifa were romantically involved before AC/ACC. That contradicts your idea of "canon" right there. And like I said before, your idea of "canon" is contradicted by other things, such as quotes in both the U20 on page 232 and on page 198 in the FFVIIUO where it says that the story diverges into two conditions according to Tifa's affection level with Cloud. It's also contradicted by things such as Cloud and Tifa having separate bedrooms in CoT, and Tifa not knowing whether Cloud loves her in CoT.
You can make convenient "excuses" for all those things, but sorry - I don't buy any of them.
That's the thing - I've repeated myself numerous times now. Cloti has only been confirmed in your opinion, but you're stating it as fact. It is NOT fact because it has not been confirmed in any way by SE. It was not confirmed by anything that happened after the HW scene in FFVII, it was not confirmed by anything in AC or ACC, it was not confirmed by anything in the novella's, and it was not confirmed by anything in DoC,
I won't believe it until SE confirms it, and neither will the other members of my forum. We think the FTOIL page actually said that who Cloud loves is up to player choice. There was a picture of both CloudxAerith and CloudxTifa under a title saying that love develops between the protagonists. Both the CloudxAerith and CloudxTifa pictures were labeled as having Divergences. They are the ONLY pictures on the page labeled as having Divergences.
The answer is simple. That means that who Cloud loves is up to the player. CloudxAerith is just as valid an interpretation as CloudxTifa.
From now on, I'm merely going to copy/paste this answer in instead of answering each of your questions individually, because the same answer applies to most things you guys bring up.
LOL... you didn't even understand what I said or the point I was making.Anastar, you have quite blatantly applied an easily visible double standard.And it's only logical that SE wouldn't show his picture after his demise unless it happened in the game.
Here, showing a picture of Shadow after his potential death scene IN A STORY SUMMARY is enough for you to conclude he lived. Above, showing the high highwind scene IN A STORY SUMMARY means nothing.
Look very carefully:She called it 'room' in the japanese, and twice, in both english and japanese it is called his office.No, Tifa calls it "your room" in CoT - not "your office" - when she tells him to go "drink in your room". Sounds like he sleeps there to me.
So because your father doesn't sleep in the room that he uses as his office means that all men don't sleep in a room that they use as their office? My father's desk was in the master bedroom, so his "office" was also his bedroom. The master bedroom had a double bed, though - unlike the single bed in Cloud's room.The same way my father has never slept in his office despite there often times being a bed in it. It is a guest bedroom.And how is showing a bed in Cloud's room supposed to mean that he's not sleeping there?
Yes - they formed a family of friends, according to Tifa. When she wonders if it's a "real family" later on, then she's obviously wondering if it's different in some way than it was when she and Marlene created it:Despite them having formed the family according to the ultimanias?No, it's the "real family" that she wants to form - she wouldn't be wondering if they were a "real family" if it were actually formed.
Yes, Cloud is the one who grows increasingly insular, but that's not the point.Cloud is not seeing members of the family growing increasingly insular as a result of their own guilt hangups. He's the one doing that.And the only person who seems concerned with that is Tifa - I don't see Cloud wondering about it.
It's shown in the original game during the hand reach scene when Cloud looks at Aerith. It's shown in the original game when Cloud talks about meeting Aerith in the Promised Land at the end of the game. It's shown in AC/ACC when Sephiroth asks Cloud what he cherishes most, and Aerith is the first thing that Cloud thinks of, followed by the hand reach scene (or Cloud meeting Aerith). It's shown in AC/ACC when Cloud leaves the Seventh Heaven to go live in Aerith's Church. It's shown at the end of AC/ACC when Cloud goes out riding on Fenrir beside flower fields said by Nomura to represent Aerith instead of returning to the Seventh Heaven. It's shown at the end of AC/ACC when Cloud says he's no longer alone, which means he WAS alone before being reunited with Aerith. It's shown in Tifa's profile in the 10th AU when it says:And where is it said that these things ARE more important to Cloud?I didn't say it actually shows that the low affection version happened. However, it sure makes it more likely when Aerith and Cloud's relationship with Aerith is shown to be more important to Cloud than Tifa.
I'm sorry, when did the date of this interview change again? And even IF it was post AC's release, A: He's not saying what you think he's saying and B: we still have all the even more recent quotes. We have both the most up to date evidence and the preponderance of it.He said that after the release of AC, so he didn't say it about an upcoming release.
Oh, I scored a serious point there folks. Ryu's evading it.Oh, I scored a serious point there folks. Anastar's evading it.
The whole point is that it's NOT blinking in neon when it doesn't say who she's a koibito to. And the point this sensei was making is more important than the spelling of it. She was saying that it makes no sense for the word "koibito" to be used without saying who the person is a "koibito" to.The word romanizes as 'sensei,' and her 'sensai' is either full of it or she's misunderstanding what was said. To say someone is a Koibito needs someone to love that person. And yes, he doesn't say who. But Nomura ALSO thinks that you don't need to be spoonfed the answers. All the answers are there, you just have to find them. This one's kind of blinking in neon.Without saying who. Furthermore, the sensai of one of our CloudxAerith forum members says that it makes no sense to use the word "koibito" without saying who the relationship is with.
But he says the nature of the relationship is unknown. That's pretty clear when he says that he has no clue whether or not Cloud and Tifa are in a romantic relationship between FFVII and AC/ACC.No. It means he doesn't know about the details. He doesn't know about their relationship. But he implicitly ackowledges a relationship.Meaningless difference. It still means he doesn't know. Fact is, he would know if the HA version were canon.
The context says nothing about the nature of the relationship. And once again, you're evading my point, which is saying that people belong together doesn't necessarily mean they're in a romance. You want it to mean that, but it doesn't.Who gives a crap what you could say? We're talking about what the CREATORS actually SAID. I note you ignore the 'future together' quote, and quite adamantly refuse to consider any sort of context.And I could say that Tifa and Barret belonged together when they wanted to form Avalanche. Friends can belong together as easily as lovers.
*yawn*It is not my opinion that SE have been " talking about the one they find more important, including it in their story summary, in the official game script, using it as one of the four most important scenes in the game, having it be an example of romantic confessions alongside other games".That's only how you see it and your opinion. Aren't people allowed to have different opinions?
*yawn*I know. And they're wrong too. I'm informed of their opinions because I keep getting told about them by someone who quite frankly finds you all absolutely hilarious.There's a whole bunch of people who frankly think your evidence is full of crap - it's not just me.
Look who's talking.I've been providing evidence. Evidence you have no response to save sticking your fingers in your ears and going LALALALALALALA!I can say the same thing to you. "Cloti is canon" is nothing but your opinion. It has not been validated by SE.
I think this is... the fifth time you've brought up the same point? Go back and look at my other responses to the same point before I start copying and pasting again.You really seem to not understand the meaning of the word contradiction, Aly. Because again, none of those are contradictions. What IS a contradiction, for the record, is stating that a story summary is insufficient to validate one particular outcome of a deviating event happening, and then saying only a few minutes later, that a story summary is sufficient to validate a particular outcome of a deviating event as happening.No, they're actual contradictions when Nomura says he doesn't know if Cloud and Tifa were romantically involved before AC, when Cloud and Tifa have separate bedrooms, when the family is made up of friends, when Tifa doesn't know whether Cloud loves her, etc.
Nope. Most scenes have yellow and white flowers in them, and Nomura said they went to Hawaii to film that sequence because the flowers are the same color as the flowers in Aerith's church.Cloud is not surrounded. There are occasionally flowers in the shot, but most often it's simply green fields. And yes, the context DOES include reminiscence, it DOES include Cloud heading home after his deliveries and asking Tifa to close the bar tomorrow.No, it's what you conveniently want to see. The actual context is Cloud surrounded by flowers that represent Aerith.
I know plenty of people giving Aerith her due. You are merely an exception to that.Cloud is then ignoring Aerith apart from picking a couple flowers as he heads home.Nomura even said they went to film that part in Hawaii because there were large fields of yellow and white flowers like the ones in Aerith's church. So Cloud is surrounded by Aerith - Tifa is nothing more than a sideline, so to speak.
But that's what this is all about, isn't it. You think people aren't giving Aerith her due.
Sorry, I don't consider a story summary to be enough evidence. It needs to happen in the actual game or movie or novella before I believe it.
but it is not canon according to the standards of a great many people outside of TLS.
we Cleriths
Shrouded
Your opinion is not shared by many other people outside of this forum.
Ask Quex if I think CxA is canon. She knows I don't.
Look very carefully
*yawn*
I think this is... the fifth time you've brought up the same point? Go back and look at my other responses to the same point before I start copying and pasting again.
Right, and we haven't seen this paragraph posted many times b4 ? :/Deviation - Two versions of the conversation before the final battle
Prior to the final battle, the contents of the conversation between Cloud and Tifa can change depending on the degree of Tifa's affection. If the degree of affection is high, the contents of the two's conversation will involve deep subject matter and strong feelings for each other. As well, the sight of the two seen by their companions the next morning will lead to an embarrassing scene for Tifa, and she blushes greatly. ~page 232, Final Fantasy 20th Anniversary Ultimana.
*yawn*
*yawn*.
Trouble is, the two people realizing mutual romantic feelings under the stars is completely optional. SE even says it's optional, and has never declared a default or canon outcome for that scene except in your imagination. YOU accept one version as canon, but it is not canon according to the standards of a great many people outside of TLS.
A canon that you created, not SE.
Sorry, I don't consider a story summary to be enough evidence. It needs to happen in the actual game or movie or novella before I believe it. The trouble with your story summary evidence is that what happens in the game/movie/novella can contradict what you accept as canon, such as Cloud having a separate bedroom.
Nope, it isn't enough now that someone has informed me that Shadow doesn't actually appear in the game after the death scene. I was assuming that he was seen in the game. If he doesn't appear in the game, then I don't accept a picture of him in a story summary as evidence that he survives.
And I find your need to constantly find evidence outside of the Compilation to prove your point ridiculous. Try using evidence from the Compilation for a change.
If he doesn't know or care what Cloud and Tifa's relationship is or whether they are romantically involved, then that's what the story is supposed to be. Their relationship is up to interpretation, like I've been saying from the start.
Just because one optional scene has a canon outcome doesn't mean that all optional scenes have a canon outcome. When I see more evidence in the actual games/movies/novellas that can apply to either side, then I think the option is what's canon.
Only in your opinion. In my opinion (and many other people) CloudxAerith is supported better by the evidence than CloudxTifa. Your opinion is not fact.
Only in your opinion. SE has not confirmed your opinion.
Shows how well you know my thoughts on the subject. Ask Quex if I think CxA is canon. She knows I don't.
Tifa is still calling it "your room" after the story referred to it as Cloud's office. That means Tifa considers it "Cloud's room", which means it's not a room that she shares with him.
The point is that Tifa's the only one wondering whether they've become a "real family." Cloud never wonders whether they've become a "real family."
It's shown in the original game during the hand reach scene when Cloud looks at Aerith.
The thing which she is unable to hide in her irritation towards Cloud is the fact that he isn’t merely dragging the past around, but because that reason might perhaps be related to Aerith. ~Tifa's character profile, 10th Anniversary Ultimania
Once again, all of the "preponderance of evidence" that you keep talking about is all in your opinion. It has not been validated by SE.
Nope. Most scenes have yellow and white flowers in them, and Nomura said they went to Hawaii to film that sequence because the flowers are the same color as the flowers in Aerith's church.
The point you are missing is that we do not see Cloud arriving back at the Seventh Heaven.
IF SE wanted to imply that Cloud and Tifa will now have a romantic relationship following AC/ACC, they would show Cloud arriving back at the Seventh Heaven, taking Tifa into his arms, and kissing her.
Then SE tells us that Cloud's Promised Land is Aerith's Church. He said he thought he could meet her there at the end of FFVII - and he did.
Fact is, Aerith is always with Cloud. That was explained in Distance, when Nomura said that Aerith's consciousness lives on inside of Cloud. What that means is that Cloud and Aerith are inseparable. They are like soul mates, a fact which is also demonstrated in FFVII when Cloud is able to sense Aerith's presence in the Forgotten City.
Well, if you recognize that Cloud and Tifa continue to have issues like Nojima stated, you must realize that "mutual feelings" can refer to feelings other than love?
Anastar said:LOL... okay. I love how you guys toss that phrase around like it's candy.
Anastar said:Well, you misunderstood. I wasn't saying that she can't have doubts - but in order to have doubts, then she was told that Cloud loves her under the HW.
I was saying that it sounds to me like she's never been told in the first place, and doesn't know because she's never been told - in which case, the HA version never happened.
And since we don't know for sure which way is true, either interpretation is possible.
Anastar said:How does that confirm he's in love with her NOW? I'm no longer in love with a giuy I was in love with in college. Same with a guy I had a crush on in sixth grade. So how does a distant crush on someone he barely knew mean that he's still in love now?
...
Once again, he was talking about his feelings for her as a kid. What he felt for her as a kid doesn't mean he feels the same way seven years later. That's no confirmation.
Anastar said:The CC Ultimania said that Cloud was dimly in love, which means a crush. Tifa said they didn't know one another that well during the Lifestream event, so they barely knew one another. Therefore, it was a distant crush.
Anastar said:Keep calling me darling, and you'll start rumors about us.
Anastar said:Trouble is, those two lines are in separate paragraphs - at least, according to the scan I was given. I was taught that separate ideas went in separate paragraphs.
Anastar said:As I read it, that means that Cloud and Tifa spending the night together COULD be the reason that Cloud's acting nice to Yuffie, but it's nothing definite. Like I said before, it could just as easily be that he's happy because the rest of Avalanche has returned for the fight in the Northern Crater.
Anastar said:See? You agree - it would be clearer that way.
Anastar said:In the same place I see a discussion of what supposedly takes place in the HA version. It's not said in the HA version, so why does it have to be said in the LA version?
Anastar said:If you're wondering where I got the idea that they only talk about friendship in the LA version, I get that idea from several things: 1) SE calls it the Low Affection Version, which means no romance. 2) Cloud and Tifa are obviously still friends if you get the LA version, so it can't mean the affection level is so low that they now despise one another. 3) The Low Affection version is described by SE as being "apathetic" and short. You can find that meaning in the meaning of "apathetic" if you promise to look at the second meaning as well as the first:
ap a thet ic ~adjective
1. having or showing little or no emotion: apathetic behavior.
2. not interested or concerned; indifferent or unresponsive: an apathetic audience.
Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/apathetic
Now, look at the synonyms:
1. unfeeling, impassive, cool.
2. uninterested, unconcerned.
Now, once again - we know that Cloud and Tifa remain friends, even if you get the LA version, right? Therefore, the meanings of indifferent, unconcerned, uninterested, unresponsive, and unfeeling have to pertain to their romantic feelings for one another.
Furthermore, if the High Affection version is romantic, then the Low Affection version would obviously be unromantic. You can even use your decoder ring to figure it out, if you want.
Anastar said:Once again, I remind you of the quote given to us by Sesc on this page:
http://ff7-material.jugem.jp/?eid=2086
It's Nomura saying that he has no clue on whether or not Cloud and Tifa had a romantic relationship going between FFVII and AC. That same quote is cited here:
http://flaregamer.com/b2article.php?p=109&more=1#ixzz0Q7xkVJPB
Anastar said:Please stop playing word games, okay?
Anastar said:And now I'm not ready to accept that because people have told me different versions of what evidence is actually available.
Anastar said:Yep, it means jackshit when we have the director of Advent Children saying that he doesn't know whether Cloud and Tifa are in a romantic relationship between FFVII and AC, and when we have pages in the U20 and in the FFVII UO saying there are two versions of the Highwind scene that depend on Tifa's affection level with Cloud.
Anastar said:Tell ye what. I'll stop with the accusations when you stop with the accusations - okay? Next time anyone says anything like this, I'm just ignoring it. I can't be bothered wasting my time with this pettiness.
Anastar said:Cloud is the woman's friend, lover (sweetheart/boyfriend) ~ CoLW, by NojimaI said:Just for shits and giggles, can you even provide so much as an official quote from anywhere saying Cloud fell in love with Aerith in a past tense setting? That's possibly the funniest thing about all this.
Ryu
Trouble is, the two people realizing mutual romantic feelings under the stars is completely optional. SE even says it's optional, and has never declared a default or canon outcome for that scene except in your imagination.
Anastar said:YOU accept one version as canon, but it is not canon according to the standards of a great many people outside of TLS.
Anastar said:Here's a Clerith friend explaining what I just said in different words:
Why do you think we Cleriths focus so much on the outcome of that scene? Cloud having a separate room? Tifa wanting to know if Cloud loves her in COT? Them not showing any signs of intimacy despite claims of them having sex on top of a rock?
Anastar said:No, I no longer accept the story summaries as confirming evidence for the things with Shadow and Terra, since I wasn't given a full explanation of it.
Anastar said:Nope, it isn't enough now that someone has informed me that Shadow doesn't actually appear in the game after the death scene. I was assuming that he was seen in the game. If he doesn't appear in the game, then I don't accept a picture of him in a story summary as evidence that he survives.
Anastar said:Sorry, I don't consider a story summary to be enough evidence. It needs to happen in the actual game or movie or novella before I believe it.
...
And I find your need to constantly find evidence outside of the Compilation to prove your point ridiculous. Try using evidence from the Compilation for a change.
Anastar said:Nomura wrote a good part of FFVII as well as AC/ACC.
Anastar said:Therefore, the Divergence is actually listed on the FTOIL page ...
Anastar said:... since it gives you the page number where the Divergence is discussed. The Divergence is actually part of the information provided about the scene.
Anastar said:But the page number is given at the top of the picture, so it is clearly intended as information that should be included - not ignored.
Anastar said:Depends entirely on your interpretation. I think Cloud declares romance for Aerith several times during the game, and that Cloud's love and devotion for Aerith is more than clear in AC/ACC.
Anastar said:Look very carefully:
...
Tifa is still calling it "your room" after the story referred to it as Cloud's office. That means Tifa considers it "Cloud's room", which means it's not a room that she shares with him.
Anastar said:So because your father doesn't sleep in the room that he uses as his office means that all men don't sleep in a room that they use as their office? My father's desk was in the master bedroom, so his "office" was also his bedroom. The master bedroom had a double bed, though - unlike the single bed in Cloud's room.
Anastar said:Yes, Cloud is the one who grows increasingly insular, but that's not the point.
The point is that Tifa's the only one wondering whether they've become a "real family." Cloud never wonders whether they've become a "real family."
Anastar said:It's shown in the original game during the hand reach scene when Cloud looks at Aerith.
Anastar said:It's shown in the original game when Cloud talks about meeting Aerith in the Promised Land at the end of the game.
Anastar said:It's shown in AC/ACC when Sephiroth asks Cloud what he cherishes most, and Aerith is the first thing that Cloud thinks of, followed by the hand reach scene (or Cloud meeting Aerith).
Anastar said:It's shown in AC/ACC when Cloud leaves the Seventh Heaven to go live in Aerith's Church.
Anastar said:It's shown at the end of AC/ACC when Cloud goes out riding on Fenrir beside flower fields said by Nomura to represent Aerith instead of returning to the Seventh Heaven.
Anastar said:It's shown at the end of AC/ACC when Cloud says he's no longer alone, which means he WAS alone before being reunited with Aerith.
Anastar said:The whole point is that it's NOT blinking in neon when it doesn't say who she's a koibito to. And the point this sensei was making is more important than the spelling of it. She was saying that it makes no sense for the word "koibito" to be used without saying who the person is a "koibito" to.
Anastar said:The point you are missing is that we do not see Cloud arriving back at the Seventh Heaven.
Anastar said:IF SE wanted to imply that Cloud and Tifa will now have a romantic relationship following AC/ACC, they would show Cloud arriving back at the Seventh Heaven, taking Tifa into his arms, and kissing her. We never see that.
Anastar said:Fact is, Aerith is always with Cloud. That was explained in Distance, when Nomura said that Aerith's consciousness lives on inside of Cloud. What that means is that Cloud and Aerith are inseparable. They are like soul mates, a fact which is also demonstrated in FFVII when Cloud is able to sense Aerith's presence in the Forgotten City.
Sorry, I don't consider a story summary to be enough evidence. It needs to happen in the actual game or movie or novella before I believe it. The trouble with your story summary evidence is that what happens in the game/movie/novella can contradict what you accept as canon, such as Cloud having a separate bedroom.
A couple I know in rl dont kiss each other, that's just them, you would think that they don't love each other, but they have a baby together. Cloud could live in Costa Del Sol on the beach while Tifa stays in Edge, it still wouldn't matter, because it's their personal relationship <3
Keep calling me darling, and you'll start rumors about us.
Ugh. We've been over this before. "Honoka" refers to the clarity with which something is observable, not its potency. The passage is saying he secretly fell in love with her.
She's saying she thinks you guys told her there was a scene of Shadow showing up regardless of if he dies or not... you didn't but.. she read it as such apparentlyWhat are you even talking about?
You have to know what the answer to this will be. You HAVE to.Going back to the U20 Scenario's story summary again, the part about the Lifestream sequence says "Cloud reveals his feelings for Tifa in the mental world" (精神世界でクラウドは、ティファへの想いを明かす beside a screenshot of Cloud's line about wanting Tifa to notice him. Notice that it doesn't say past feelings. Just feelings.
She's going to tell you that the affection rating determines Tifa's affection rating and it could be as low as zero. In which case she has zero romantic interest in Cloud and he has zero in her and so on...All well and good, but you're ignoring that Tifa loves Cloud. The notion of her being uninterested in Cloud romantically is, well, crap.
Yeah see? The grass was already sexually active so Cloud and Tifa may as well have been tooNevermind that screenshot from just a few posts ago that shows them surrounded by fucking grass.
Why do you think we Cleriths focus so much on the outcome of that scene? Cloud having a separate room? Tifa wanting to know if Cloud loves her in COT? Them not showing any signs of intimacy despite claims of them having sex on top of a rock?
well post-lifestream there wasn't a fuckton of sexual humor eitherBah, that's still Zack!Cloud at Costa Del Sol. It seems to me it'd be rather out of character for the post-Lifestream Cloud.
We see how Aerith's concioousness lives on in Case of the Lifestream. It did not involve Cloud until she had no other recourse, she didn't even think it could until Sephiroth did his thing.Fact is, Aerith is always with Cloud. That was explained in Distance, when Nomura said that Aerith's consciousness lives on inside of Cloud. What that means is that Cloud and Aerith are inseparable. They are like soul mates, a fact which is also demonstrated in FFVII when Cloud is able to sense Aerith's presence in the Forgotten City.
That's contradicted by the fact that Cloud and Tifa are shown to have separate rooms.
That's contradicted by the fact that we have seen NO hint of behaviors that would confirm them as a couple - for example, a kiss or a hug or an "I love you" - in a non-optional scene.
No, I no longer accept the story summaries as confirming evidence for the things with Shadow and Terra, since I wasn't given a full explanation of it.
And I find your need to constantly find evidence outside of the Compilation to prove your point ridiculous. Try using evidence from the Compilation for a change.
Nomura wrote a good part of FFVII as well as AC/ACC.
Only in your opinion. In my opinion (and many other people) CloudxAerith is supported better by the evidence than CloudxTifa.
SE has not confirmed your opinion.
Shows how well you know my thoughts on the subject. Ask Quex if I think CxA is canon. She knows I don't.
Depends entirely on your interpretation. I think Cloud declares romance for Aerith several times during the game
Except in their official story summary...Once again, all of the "preponderance of evidence" that you keep talking about is all in your opinion. It has not been validated by SE.
my point, which is saying that people belong together doesn't necessarily mean they're in a romance.
*yawn*
Then SE tells us that Cloud's Promised Land is Aerith's Church. He said he thought he could meet her there at the end of FFVII - and he did.
They are like soul mates...
Amazing revelation straight from SE, folks! Marlene and Tifa are Aerith's other soul mates!
Along with Cloud!
'Cause they can all sense her!
Now, how's that for a foursome?
I'm surprised this came up again... Honoka does not mean secretly here. That's a different word entirely. The statement is "For whom he had slight/some feelings for." I think several Japanese dictionaries actually use "faint feelings of attraction" as an example.
Que said:You have to know what the answer to this will be. You HAVE to.
Que said:She's going to tell you that the affection rating determines Tifa's affection rating and it could be as low as zero. In which case she has zero romantic interest in Cloud and he has zero in her and so on...
I'd like a fucking screen shot of Tifa's room, please.
You know what, fuck it, her and Cloud share the cot. She sleeps on top of him. Prove I'm wrong
FHS said:Bull fucking shit.
If the church was his 'Promised Land' why the fuck was he a miserable bastard while he was there?
The place where he awakens---
That is Cloud's Promised Land
As he sleeps, Cloud hears two voices. The voices of two people very dear to
him, who are no longer with him. Playfully and kindly, they give him a
message: he doesn't belong here yet.
When he awakes, there was his friends. There were the children, freed from
their fatal illness. Tifa and Marlene, and Denzel asking for Cloud to heal
his Geostigma-- his family were waiting. Engulfed in celebration, he
realises where he is meant to live. He realises that he was able to forgive
himself.
And when he turns around--- 'she' is starting to leave. Together with the
friend who had given Cloud his life. Cloud no longer has to suffer in
loneliness... And so they too go back to where they belong.
Back to the current of life flowing around the planet---.
FHS said:Fuck you, Tres. It's Vincent x Aerith. Why else would he go to the Forgotten City often if not to be near her? In fact he states: "I come here often." **hurrdurr**
The dictionaries I became familiar with the word through used "to be seen faintly/dimly," so it would seem we're not able to agree on that word. I still insist it refers to perception, particularly in the CC Ultimania quote.
It also just flatly doesn't make sense to call Cloud's crush on Tifa from his younger days faint given that he joined SOLDIER to impress her and that the promise he made to her was his guiding light. It's even the last thing he speaks of if he fails during the mission with him in BC.
I want you.
You're on to something here.It should be my cock.
This is why I'll always advocate playing the game, to avoid situations like this. I don't blame Anastar for doubting optionality because it's still an issue with games today- games still have issues between storytelling, gameplay, and options. And tbh, not all optional outcomes have the same effect- some are done for rewards, some are done for player choice, some are obvious ploys to support replayability, and some are just a product of the time.No, I no longer accept the story summaries as confirming evidence for the things with Shadow and Terra, since I wasn't given a full explanation of it.