XBoxOne

[Hisako]

Ah, the wonders of PR spin. It's all rhetoric, coming from any mouth, any company. A lot of rhetoric was heard at E3, and we'll be hearing so much more from the Big Three and their fans up until the Christmas period

This article on the Escapist is worth reading.

Never forget, never forgive.

And for those in the UK:

No company ever says that their terms and conditions of usage won't be subject to change in the future - at least, not in a manner that is legally binding. I don't mind them implementing their digital distribution plans in the future, as long as it's a viable choice and there are contingencies for disadvantaged gamers to fall back on.

By design, using the cloud needs to be optional or at least there needs to be a way of compensating for an inability to use the cloud by gamers. If Microsoft (and developers making use of cloud gaming) can give more options to gamers besides "don't play it if you can't use it", then I would think that many, many people would be on board with that idea. Because it's genuinely interesting tech that is probably being pushed out a little too early to be absolutely mandatory at the very moment. If Microsoft want to tout and promote their cloud gaming concept as an advantage of developing for the One, fine - but niche demographics don't have to be completely shafted for others to benefit, or at the very least they can be taken into consideration.

A lot of valid points in that article there, though. tl;dr, just keep all the cool digital distribution shit and make an offline mode, ffs.

 

[Tetsujin]

Worth a read:

An industry that needs Xbox One DRM is a failed industry

 

[Geostigma]

ugh same i mean the biggest issue was that the lending system they were implementing was way too restrictive, and no one at the company even seemed to be able to give a clear, concise answer. however, the general concept of having a steam-like library where you could loan a game to friends digitally would have actually been neat. but again, it was too limited (10 people? ugh) and poorly presented.



slowly transitioning from disk to digital is smarter than trying to rip the band-aid off, though. if they're smart about it. guess we'll see what happens.

IIRC they scrapped the idea of the family share plan anyway so its a moot point.
That and rumors on Neogaf (which are from credible sources-Cboat) are stating that the Family plan was only going to be 1 hour demo/trials of the games your friend has anyway.

If thats the case that just seems like a limited version of PSN on PS3. On PSN you can get 1 hour trials of alot of games already, you dont need to have a friend who owns the game to try it out. And better yet IIRC PSN for PS4 was going to allow trying out all games wasnt it?

And worth noting is that you can already game share on PS3 with friends as long as you share PSN accounts. The game download ToS also directly states that sharing is allowed as long as the original PS3 that the account was created on does not lose access to said game (i.e. Ylod). So all in all the Family plan just really looks like an extremely limited version of a feature that was already available on current gen.

 

[Interslicery]

Honestly they're probably bring it all back in a few years. Once people forget about all this and they get a dedicated fanbase.

 

[Joe]

Spoiler: Critical Miss

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Again, Bill Gates/Microsoft. Nothing more should have to be said to have this whole discussion be moot. He/His company does it with their computers, and what is a gaming console but a computer dedicated to a specific purpose? This is one reason why I've not gone the Xbox route. Nothing said surprises me.

(Just throwing it out there, Bill Gates hasn't been directly involved with Microsoft's direction in a significant period of time - he's a non-executive chairman and mostly does charity work through his own organization now. Steve Ballmer is the CEO who technically runs things, though everything is largely departmentalized when you actually get into everything within the company).


In disgustingly bullshit PR news:

Microsoft says its decision to reverse its stance on Internet-connection requirements and used-games limitations was held up by last week's E3 gaming expo.

Speaking to All Things Digital in an interview published Thursday, Microsoft Xbox Chief Product Officer Mark Whitten said the company's E3 presentation was "the first time we had a chance to really lay out our program," adding that Microsoft believed it could explain the "complete story" at E3 and get to see what consumers "liked and what they didn't like."

In other words, Microsoft wanted to use its E3 gaming presentation to determine just how heinous its ideas on piracy and used games were to the public.

"While we believe that the majority of people will play games online and access the cloud for both games and entertainment, we will give consumers the choice of both physical and digital content," Microsoft Interactive Entertainment Business President Don Mattrick said Wednesday in a blog post. "We have listened and we have heard loud and clear from your feedback that you want the best of both worlds."

You listened because NO ONE was going to buy your goddamn system.

Don't for one second try to play it off that you went to E3 with the intention of 'testing the waters'. You were 100% dedicated to cramming your DRM stuffed shit sandwich down the throats of everyone you assumed would be kneeling down to gobble it up.

I'm surprised that for a second it looked like you were going to own up to making a shit decision, and come out and acknowledge that it was shit. Instead you're just saying, we actually just wanted to know if you could tell whether or not it was actually stuffed full of shit. You'd have been perfectly pleased selling them if you could've gotten away with it.

Step up and take the hit, but don't try to play this game.



X

 

[ForceStealer]

To say nothing of the fact they didn't even MENTION used games or anything of that nature at E3 unless directly asked.

 

[Geostigma]

Typical douche bag attitude lol.

Its pretty pathetic tbh

 

[Hisako]

That and rumors on Neogaf (which are from credible sources-Cboat) are stating that the Family plan was only going to be 1 hour demo/trials of the games your friend has anyway.

If memory serves me right, I think someone directly confronted one of Microsoft's twitters about whether or not this was the case and they straight up said no.

They didn't say exactly how it would have worked, but there you have it.

 

[Geostigma]

Because Microsoft is a credible source these days

 

[Hisako]

well hey, if you just want to believe that the official word didn't say what they said, that's your funeral buddy

a bajillion credible neogaf sources (including CBoaT, i believe) said they were going to underclock the One, and look where that went.

 

[Geostigma]

well hey, if you just want to believe that the official word didn't say what they said, that's your funeral buddy

a bajillion credible neogaf sources (including CBoaT, i believe) said they were going to underclock the One, and look where that went.

There is absolutely zero reason to believe either side. The entire thing is a non-issue now. Microsoft pulled the program before the details of the program were fully released, this means that Microsoft can now say whatever the fuck they want to about the program which is meaningless. It's like if Peter Molyneux were saying that the next Fable game was going to have a shit ton of features, and then the game never gets finished or released. Why should I care about something that doesn't exist? Or better yet, believe its features that they never fleshed out.

edit:

Btw the claims of the Xbone being underclocked have yet to be debunked. Well know for sure when its released and people start gutting it

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Further reinforcement to my above post.



X

 

[Hisako]

There is absolutely zero reason to believe either side. The entire thing is a non-issue now. Microsoft pulled the program before the details of the program were fully released, this means that Microsoft can now say whatever the fuck they want to about the program which is meaningless. It's like if Peter Molyneux were saying that the next Fable game was going to have a shit ton of features, and then the game never gets finished or released. Why should I care about something that doesn't exist? Or better yet, believe its features that they never fleshed out.

edit:

Btw the claims of the Xbone being underclocked have yet to be debunked. Well know for sure when its released and people start gutting it

Basically I was going to say that speculating about its failures and coming up with truthfacts or whatever would be pointless as well, seeing as a) people haven't been able to definitively test the One and its policies in practice, and b)they're all subject to change anyway

but yeah

it was like the people getting all excited about how the Playstation 3 was going to be backwards compatible lol

 

[Geostigma]

 

[Geostigma]

Escapist - Why PC gaming gets away with it (DRM)

 

[Obsidian Fire]

^^Pretty much nailed why PC gaming is a completely different beast then console gaming is.

 

[Jack Gilmour]

Because Microsoft is a credible source these days

Yeah, it's going to take them a while to rebuild their trust with core gamers, at least one would think that anyway.

 

[Splintered]

Escapist - Why PC gaming gets away with it (DRM)

This is pretty much what I've been thinking anytime someone complained about those of us complaining about the xbox. I just had a hard time putting it into words, and I'm not particularly well versed in PC gaming and I was scared of putting my foot in my mouth in front of people who know better than I. Also I like the convenience of console gaming and there's a reason I avoid PC gaming.

But overall, the issue with the forcing of the digital system, is just that- it's forced. From what I know of Stream, they're huge because they won over the public. They created a service and gave great deals, and THEN people came over to them. And they don't give great deals out of the kindness of their hearts, they do it because they are competing with other services.

I might be wrong but I read somewhere else that services like Amazon and Ebay have sales and perks on their own dime- because they are trying to attract and keep loyal customers and Steam is comparable to that.

It's a consumer's choice. With the Xbox system, it's not. And if they control which retail store the used market goes through, they have more control of the prices. And I don't trust xbox to magically get the game market price correctly, not when they effectively control too many aspects of it. Not when there have been other systems failed at something similar.

Steam, from I gather, has the gamer confidence and trust. Microsoft doesn't, and that's not the consumer's fault. Nobody magically gains consumer trust because they should. And they need to earn it with a solid system that users are comfortable putting their faith in.

The digital system could probably work if they have some real, valuable perks. Things that directly compete with Steam, and I don't particularly buy the idea that they could ONLY do it if they force everyone into the digital downloading system.

They had a lot of great ideas but I find it suspicious that they would mysteriously drop all the distribution all together. Like they wouldn't even bother putting forth the effort in an actually competitive marketplace. A system where you could share your games with your friends, digitally give it to someone when you are done, play the same game in different xboxs in the same house. Yeah that would make it competitive. So why not, you know, compete unless it was a subspar system that wouldn't work. It's not like Xbox doesn't spend time and energy on superfluous programs.

But that is all done now, Xbox recanted and you know what, I'm not going to hold it against them. There's nothing to gain from losing another console. And if they change for what I believe is for the better, well I'm not complaining.

This is exactly what's suppose to happen, consumers should be able to voice in mass their discontent to change policies. It's one of the powers of the consumers has to directly influence a product. And it's a hell of a lot better then just dumping a product and letting it fail. I know a consumer apparently "doesn't know what they want" but I still stand by the idea that even if that's true- a consumer does know what they DON'T want.

And I think xbox had an unfortunate time of trying to introduce their system when the whole atmosphere was getting real sick and tired of DRM and publisher backhanding. I'm thinking of Sim City as the nearest example, and it might not be fair because it's nothing like what Xbox is trying to implement. But what really matters is how it feeds into the growing annoyance of consumers that even smell the idea of the prevalence of drm into areas they don't want.

You can build your digital distribution the good old fashion way. Great deals. Exclusive indie titles. I like what they are going with Xbox gold and having games given away for free. That's a gateway drug to people suddenly getting comfortable with games online without forcing it down our throats.

Yeah this was longer than I wanted it to be, but I'm not a fan of people trying to paint the large scale revolt against Xbox as some sort of idiot crowd who don't know a good thing when they see it. Bah.

 

[Geostigma]

Wonderfully said splintered

I do think theres another side to the story that Jim didnt touch on though as to why DRM make sense for PC.

Piracy. When you buy a game on console for the most part unless you know what your doing ripping a game is pretty darn tough and out of the millions of people who buy the game only a handful will know how to rip it and put it on the net. So the biggest issue was reselling through places like gamestop. It was a direct eff you to players who were still buying the games legally, albeit cheaper.

Making them feel like there in the wrong for not wanting to pay full price for a game that is generally not worth the full price tag half of the time, as if to ignore the fact that perhaps publishers and devs should consider just making a better game to avoid second hand sells.


This how ever isn't the case with PC. When you play in the older days you were putting your disc into a machine that has everything it needs to rip and pack that CD into a nice little file for the pirate bay. Games were being ripped on day 1 often within an hour of launch and would be waiting for the gamer on torrent sites. It was a real problem.

Even with DRM physical format was pretty simple to crack and more often then not day 1 rips still existed.

Its a necessary evil for pc gaming.

I mean how often do you run across PS3/360 ISO's when browsing torrents or rom sites? VS how many times you run into ripped PC games?

The biggest issue for me is that Xbox1's policies and "features" were solutions to a problem that did not exist on console. In fact that "problem" was actually a huge selling point for console gamers and its pretty snide of MS to want to remove that awesome feature and treat the gamers who took advantage of it as crap.

 

[Jack Gilmour]

Wonderfully said splintered

I do think theres another side to the story that Jim didnt touch on though as to why DRM make sense for PC.

Piracy. When you buy a game on console for the most part unless you know what your doing ripping a game is pretty darn tough and out of the millions of people who buy the game only a handful will know how to rip it and put it on the net. So the biggest issue was reselling through places like gamestop. It was a direct eff you to players who were still buying the games legally, albeit cheaper.

Making them feel like there in the wrong for not wanting to pay full price for a game that is generally not worth the full price tag half of the time, as if to ignore the fact that perhaps publishers and devs should consider just making a better game to avoid second hand sells.


This how ever isn't the case with PC. When you play in the older days you were putting your disc into a machine that has everything it needs to rip and pack that CD into a nice little file for the pirate bay. Games were being ripped on day 1 often within an hour of launch and would be waiting for the gamer on torrent sites. It was a real problem.

Even with DRM physical format was pretty simple to crack and more often then not day 1 rips still existed.

Its a necessary evil for pc gaming.

I mean how often do you run across PS3/360 ISO's when browsing torrents or rom sites? VS how many times you run into ripped PC games?

The biggest issue for me is that Xbox1's policies and "features" were solutions to a problem that did not exist on console. In fact that "problem" was actually a huge selling point for console gamers and its pretty snide of MS to want to remove that awesome feature and treat the gamers who took advantage of it as crap.

Xbox 360 actually has a pretty big piracy scene, while the PS3 has a much smaller one. Neither are anywhere near as bad as it is on the PC obviously, but it's still an issue, for the Xbox at least.

But yeah, DRM on console will likely never happen as long as there's physical media being sold. I think by the end of the PS4/X1 era we'll see a shift to digital downloads becoming more standard though.

 

[Geostigma]

Agreed. This will most likely be the last generation with physical copies and minimal/no DRM present for consoles.

Heres hoping that by next generation Sony/MS figure out what makes DRM on pc less of a head ache then the proposed BS by MS this generation.

Seriously I really really do not want to be forced into pinging the mothership every 24 hours 10 years from now.

 

[Marcus]

Agreed, I think even with these consoles they'll try to phase out the use of discs and push for DLC. I think Sony are already making a strong push for digital content with PlayStation Plus, giving you free games and discounts for members on digital entertainment.

and now Xbox are doing it with the two free monthly games for XBL Gold members. It's small steps but it's what needs to be done. The thing that is holding them back is the prices for new content available via the stores compared to purchasing a physical copy, an extra £10 to download from my own computer and of course the fact that you can't run downloads whilst playing games is letting PS3 down, fortunately that issue is fixed on PS4.

Digital content will definitely be getting pushed more with this generation but they're going to need to have better incentives for people who prefer buying physical media. Things like being able to download a play the game a week or even a few days before the physical copies are launched would be a great incentive as well as offering free DLC only available to people who download content, those offers would definitely sway me from buying Physical copies.

wow long post didn't mean to go on forever.

 

[Jack Gilmour]

Xbox One will not come with a headset, instead you can use the Kinect for chatting... or you could just buy the "must have" headset separately.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM-ssjQUphQ

 

[Geostigma]

^Also the old headsets wont work as the headphone jack is a different size now

So to play online properly you need XBL gold (first year is not free despite a popular rumor), need to buy a new headset separately as well.
Thats easily over 600$ just to play online normaly lol.