SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[GamerSkull]

I have a five-tier ranking system for shippers:

Level 1 - Normal. Appreciates their ship but accepts the outcome of the story even their ship isn’t endgame.
Ex. “I prefer Aerith, but I accept what happens between Cloud and Tifa.”

Level 2 - Misinformed. Genuine, but believes common misconceptions perpetuated by other shippers.
Ex.1 “The way Cloud feels towards the girls depends on the player”.
Ex.2 “Cloud only likes Aerith because he thinks he’s Zack.”

Level 3 - Dishonest. Intentionally misrepresents the story/characters to try to win a shipping war.
Ex. “Cloud and Aerith are the intended couple of FF7, Tifa’s ‘route’ is out-of-character.”

Level 4 - Delusional. Essentially rewrites the story to make everything about their ship.
Ex. “Tifa accepts defeat because she realizes Cloud only truly loves Aerith.”

Level 5 - Whatever the hell Jairus was.

Pretty good list. Applies to many popular franchises that have shipping wars.

I still have flashbacks to the Naruto one.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Pretty good list. Applies to many popular franchises that have shipping wars.

I still have flashbacks to the Naruto one.

Naruto? Oh? You mean Nalt, father of Bolt.

But yes, that one was pretty vitriolic and I say that as someone who dropped Naruto after Kakashi stopped appearing so much. It's weird how much more aggressive the fandoms seem to get in shows where romance is the side dish, rather than the main.

Jumping topics slightly, I've been thinking about how there are some romances that are narratively a "will they or won't they" and some that are "the question is when." and sometimes they are very similar- and sometimes a story can move from one into the other. "The question is when" romances are often defined by revealing to the audience in some way that the romantic leads are very into each other but have trouble expressing it for whatever reason. Oftentimes obstacles will get in their way, including third parties who make the duo a love triangle.

An excellent example of the difference between these two types of stories is original continuity Spider-Man and Mary Jane (at least before editorial fucked things up with One More Day) and basically any AU of them, but specifically Spider-Man loves Mary Jane.
Hilariously, one of the major changes to all these AUs is that Mary Jane is changed to be a neighbor and childhood friend or crush of Peter, rather than someone he meets as he is moving into College.

For some Japanese examples of this trope, there's Kimi no Todoke, Kaguya-Same Love is War and other final fantasy romances like Cecil and Rosa, Wakka and Lulu, Vaan and Penelo, Noctis and Luna, and Clive and Jill.

Examples of Will/Won't in FF include Edge/ Rydia (Lydia), Locke/Celes, Squall/ Rinoa, Zidane/ Garnet, Lightning's Foot/ Snow's Face, and Prompto/ Cindy among others.

Cloud/Tifa is absolutely built as a "the question is when" romance.

 

[Sacky]

Naruto? Oh? You mean Nalt, father of Bolt.

But yes, that one was pretty vitriolic and I say that as someone who dropped Naruto after Kakashi stopped appearing so much. It's weird how much more aggressive the fandoms seem to get in shows where romance is the side dish, rather than the main.

Jumping topics slightly, I've been thinking about how there are some romances that are narratively a "will they or won't they" and some that are "the question is when." and sometimes they are very similar- and sometimes a story can move from one into the other. "The question is when" romances are often defined by revealing to the audience in some way that the romantic leads are very into each other but have trouble expressing it for whatever reason. Oftentimes obstacles will get in their way, including third parties who make the duo a love triangle.

An excellent example of the difference between these two types of stories is original continuity Spider-Man and Mary Jane (at least before editorial fucked things up with One More Day) and basically any AU of them, but specifically Spider-Man loves Mary Jane.
Hilariously, one of the major changes to all these AUs is that Mary Jane is changed to be a neighbor and childhood friend or crush of Peter, rather than someone he meets as he is moving into College.

For some Japanese examples of this trope, there's Kimi no Todoke, Kaguya-Same Love is War and other final fantasy romances like Cecil and Rosa, Wakka and Lulu, Vaan and Penelo, Noctis and Luna, and Clyde and Jill.

Examples of Will/Won't in FF include Edge/ Rydia (Lydia), Locke/Celes, Squall/ Rinoa, Zidane/ Garnet, Lightning's Foot/ Snow's Face, and Prompto/ Cindy among others.

Cloud/Tifa is absolutely built as a "the question is when" romance.

Clive/Jill is also very much a when XD

 

[Yoru]

Clive/Jill is also very much a when XD

Speaking of FF couples and Tifa being Cloud centric only (if we listen to the weird side of FF7twt) Jill in FFXVI was such a let down for me... the way she disappeared when she's done playing her part (= serve the male) was maddening

I think it shows just how much Tifa stands on her own.

 

[GamerSkull]

Speaking of FF couples and Tifa being Cloud centric only (if we listen to the weird side of FF7twt) Jill in FFXVI was such a let down for me... the way she disappeared when she's done playing her part (= serve the male) was maddening

I think it shows just how much Tifa stands on her own.

I actually think Jill stands on her own pretty well but more could have been done.

Although, the new Rising Tide DLC will have Jill-centric stuff or so I’m told.

 

[Eerie]

The way Jill is written in XVI makes me mad. Like, I was like a bit WTF on how they let her down, then I played FFXIV Heavensward and went "ok I get it why she's written like this now, but that makes me even madder". Don't let them tell you Mahiro doesn't know how to write female characters, he knows perfectly how to do it. The fact is he's chosen not to do it for Jill because they got complains about that one character she resembles a lot in HS and so they tried to soften the blow there I guess.

I really hope that DLC will do her justice. /end of rant not pertaining to FFVII or the LTD XD

Oh and BTW @LunarTarotGirl I call myself an extremist because I stand by that Cloud, while absolutely cherishing Aerith, doesn't have romantic feelings for her. Here that grants you that title xD

 

[Ryushikaze]

The way Jill is written in XVI makes me mad. Like, I was like a bit WTF on how they let her down, then I played FFXIV Heavensward and went "ok I get it why she's written like this now, but that makes me even madder". Don't let them tell you Mahiro doesn't know how to write female characters, he knows perfectly how to do it. The fact is he's chosent not to do it for Jill because they got complains about that one character she resembles a lot in HS and so they tried to soften the blow there I guess.

I really hope that DLC will do her justice. /end of rant not pertaining to FFVII or the LTD XD

Oh and BTW @LunarTarotGirl I call myself an extremist because I stand by that Cloud, while absolutely cherishing Aerith, doesn't have romantic feelings for her. Here that grants you that title xD

I suppose I would incur that title too because I insist the case be made that Cloud had romantic feelings towards Aerith rather than that being the default assumption, but A: Proper argumentative methods are important and each side must fulfill their burden of proof and B: I think it's allowed to be a little bit petty after years of C/A people insisting that Cloud never loved Tifa in the first place in spite of all the evidence.

 

[Stiggie]

I just wanted to point out I have seen several people point to themselves as "extremists" here when you've been nothing but calm and polite?

I always thought extremist meant someone who insults others and in general goes too far over their ship. Like they have character hate essays or they attack and harass people?

But I guess the definition varies? Is it different here?
I was very surprised though, at least from what I have observed I don't think I would use that description for anyone here.

It depends I suppose, I don't think I'm an extremist, I've been called one though. And I think the argument could easily be made that the very act of spending significant time talking about something as trivial as a gaming love triangle by itself qualifies one to be an extremist.

I mean, how many people are actively discussing stuff on this board? Maybe 100 or so? Of the millions of FFVII fans?

Environment also matters, it's simply a natural occurrence that places like Twitter don't exactly nourish productive debate. Any place that makes people feel like they are shouting into a void stimulates the urge to shout louder. That's what people do when they feel unheard.

So people here might not be less extremist, just less on edge as it were.

 

[Ryeleigh]

I just wanted to point out I have seen several people point to themselves as "extremists" here when you've been nothing but calm and polite?

I always thought extremist meant someone who insults others and in general goes too far over their ship. Like they have character hate essays or they attack and harass people?

But I guess the definition varies? Is it different here?
I was very surprised though, at least from what I have observed I don't think I would use that description for anyone here.

I guess saying that personally I didn't get romantic vibes from Cloud to Aerith isn't that extreme, at least compared to what's going on in Twitter or Tumblr, lol.

And yes, I think this place is calm and polite so it's a shame that people avoid this place like the plague too. But I guess it's understandable that people just want to be left alone with their beliefs, especially if they're ingrained and dearly held.

 

[Lex]

And yes, I think this place is calm and polite so it's a shame that people avoid this place like the plague too. But I guess it's understandable that people just want to be left alone with their beliefs, especially if they're ingrained and dearly held.

What a long road it was to get to the point where someone has this read in the LTD thread of all places. I'm so proud of how far we've come.

 

[Ryeleigh]

What a long road it was to get to the point where someone has this read in the LTD thread of all places. I'm so proud of how far we've come.

To be honest, I checked on the Rebirth Spoilers Thread and that one seems a lot wilder than this one, lol.

 

[Eerie]

What a long road it was to get to the point where someone has this read in the LTD thread of all places. I'm so proud of how far we've come.

It tells about how much we've gotten old lol, or maybe it's also paired with the fact that the discourse elsewhere in social media has become worse than what we used to see I believe (which is more scary than anything tbh).

I definitely think that a forum where you can put down your thoughts calmly to elaborate on an idea you have, is always much better than anything else we have. The speed of the internet elsewhere just doesn't allow that - even reddit doesn't, because it's too easy to manipulate with votes.

 

[Ryushikaze]

What a long road it was to get to the point where someone has this read in the LTD thread of all places. I'm so proud of how far we've come.

You'll find that as the firehose flow of bullshit coming our way specifically has tapered off, so too has the rage and vitriol.

 

[cgnVirtue]

To be honest, I checked on the Rebirth Spoilers Thread and that one seems a lot wilder than this one, lol.

I’m a bit scared of that thread to tell the truth lol. I just revisited it.

I think it’s kind of hilarious that, outside of passionate shippers, theories have gotten people so heated.
I don’t know if they meant to do this, but it’s really interesting that from what I’ve seen about the LTD, most discussions revolving around the LTD have moved on. It seems like everybody’s seen Tifa’s GS date and the kiss, there’s a compilation of reactions from all kinds of creators, and every article I’ve ever seen regarding it always (even reluctantly) mentions that the LTD is over. Like that’s all there is on the matter according to regular fans.
But when talking about theories of the ending of Remake/Rebirth, where the story is headed, changes, etc. people get super heated.
It’s almost as if SE themselves were tired of FFVII discussions being about “Who is Cloud’s girlfriend” and instead created dialogue about something else. Which, if they did mean to do this, I don’t blame them. It’s a better look, in my opinion, for FFVII discussions to be about convoluted writing than it is about who wants to date who.
Though perhaps they didn’t do this on purpose. But it does make their game and their story a lot easier to take seriously without the LTD being at the forefront.

 

[abzy1200]

Hi, I'm new here so if this post is in the wrong thread or comes off as rude, I'm sorry in advance.

So, does anyone here still think that the remake trilogy will end with Advent children? because I feel like it would be awkward for it to, especially since some stuff like Kyrie were placed into the remakes, it would just make some stuff feel disjointed.

With that said, I can't help but feel like Clerith will be canon in the re;trilogy, or atleast the ambiguity around it will be brought back from the dead again, and before I go any further I'm a Cloti, and firmly believe it is THE pairing of ff7 by the time of Advent Children.

My reasoning for this is as follows; I assume most of us accept that a Clerith ending of this story is a bad one, and would only serve to hurt basically all three characters involved in the original love triangle. I also assume that most of us are partial to the belief that Remake and Rebirth had, to put it in the best way possible, weak endings, since it is the general opinion I see online.

So far, that leaves us with 2/3 games in this trilogy having bad endings, and now that it's a pattern and the story will only get more derailed from here on out, it's not unfair to assume the third game will also have a bad ending with all of the dimension jumping stuff being even more prominent.

Maybe I'm just being pessimistic since I'm just kind of like that, but I can't help but feel that, with Aerith "dead", the perfect spot for Square Enix to give her screentime and importance in the third game will be to include her in the lifestream sequence, especially with the new addition of Cloud deluding himself about Aeriths death. The same way Square Enix wasn't going to make Remake without Sephiroth having a role, I feel that there's no way Square Enix would develop an entire ff7 game with Aerith, (one of the most iconic and marketable video game characters ever) only having as much of a role as Zack did in Rebirth.

Aerith appearing in the lifestream sequence, in my eyes atleast, cheapens it HEAVILY. It is basically the moment in the original it tells the player "Cloud was living a lie all long, and that he has deeply ingrained feelings for another woman". It is a pivotal moment for the Cloud and Tifa pairing, and Aerith being there, honestly, would kind of ruin it, because now it isn't a Cloud and Tifa moment, it's just a story beat like any other.

This is where the ambiguity comes back into play in the Re;trilogy. With Katou gone from Square Enix, (presumably) Square Enix keeping the third game to a teen rating, and keeping the affection mechanics from Rebirth, I can't see the highwind scene being an implied sex scene like it used to be, or anything special if not being gutted by Square completely, It was already a miracle it was added in the first place.

Pair all this with the fact the third game "linking up" with Advent Children doesn't seem possible due to characters like Kyrie being repurposed, and that the third game will probably have a terrible ending like the two that came before it, I think the Re;trilogy will almost definitely have either:

1) A Clerith ending
2) Way too much ambiguity, with it favouring Clerith.

So, those are my thoughts. Again, if this is posted in the wrong thread or came off as rude, I'm really sorry.

 

[GamerSkull]

Hi, I'm new here so if this post is in the wrong thread or comes off as rude, I'm sorry in advance.

So, does anyone here still think that the remake trilogy will end with Advent children? because I feel like it would be awkward for it to, especially since some stuff like Kyrie were placed into the remakes, it would just make some stuff feel disjointed.

With that said, I can't help but feel like Clerith will be canon in the re;trilogy, or atleast the ambiguity around it will be brought back from the dead again, and before I go any further I'm a Cloti, and firmly believe it is THE pairing of ff7 by the time of Advent Children.

My reasoning for this is as follows; I assume most of us accept that a Clerith ending of this story is a bad one, and would only serve to hurt basically all three characters involved in the original love triangle. I also assume that most of us are partial to the belief that Remake and Rebirth had, to put it in the best way possible, weak endings, since it is the general opinion I see online.

So far, that leaves us with 2/3 games in this trilogy having bad endings, and now that it's a pattern and the story will only get more derailed from here on out, it's not unfair to assume the third game will also have a bad ending with all of the dimension jumping stuff being even more prominent.

Maybe I'm just being pessimistic since I'm just kind of like that, but I can't help but feel that, with Aerith "dead", the perfect spot for Square Enix to give her screentime and importance in the third game will be to include her in the lifestream sequence, especially with the new addition of Cloud deluding himself about Aeriths death. The same way Square Enix wasn't going to make Remake without Sephiroth having a role, I feel that there's no way Square Enix would develop an entire ff7 game with Aerith, (one of the most iconic and marketable video game characters ever) only having as much of a role as Zack did in Rebirth.

Aerith appearing in the lifestream sequence, in my eyes atleast, cheapens it HEAVILY. It is basically the moment in the original it tells the player "Cloud was living a lie all long, and that he has deeply ingrained feelings for another woman". It is a pivotal moment for the Cloud and Tifa pairing, and Aerith being there, honestly, would kind of ruin it, because now it isn't a Cloud and Tifa moment, it's just a story beat like any other.

This is where the ambiguity comes back into play in the Re;trilogy. With Katou gone from Square Enix, (presumably) Square Enix keeping the third game to a teen rating, and keeping the affection mechanics from Rebirth, I can't see the highwind scene being an implied sex scene like it used to be, or anything special if not being gutted by Square completely, It was already a miracle it was added in the first place.

Pair all this with the fact the third game "linking up" with Advent Children doesn't seem possible due to characters like Kyrie being repurposed, and that the third game will probably have a terrible ending like the two that came before it, I think the Re;trilogy will almost definitely have either:

1) A Clerith ending
2) Way too much ambiguity, with it favouring Clerith.

So, those are my thoughts. Again, if this is posted in the wrong thread or came off as rude, I'm really sorry.

I mean, I suppose it is possible. I feel like it would be pretty a shitty thing to do to Tifa and Zack though.

If they really want to do Clerith, then they should not be including some of Cloti scenes and the Zack scenes in Rebirth. It makes it really messy, and I would have a hard time really liking Cloud if he ends up with Aerith with some of the decisions he has made already.

Thing is, the writers have expressly stated they’d be leaving things less open for interpretation. So ambiguity is definitely not the route to go.

Plus, I think this all could largely still end up with Advent Children. Just some small thinks like Kyrie would be weird. But even TKAA can still play out mostly the same, just that Kyrie knows the group.

Also, I agree that the endings to both games have been weak, but that doesn’t mean a bad third ending is gonna be a Clerith one because Clerith is considered a bad ending. I don’t know if that’s what you are saying but I don’t see the tracking there.

And welcome!

 

[abzy1200]

I mean, I suppose it is possible. I feel like it would be pretty a shitty thing to do to Tifa and Zack though.

If they really want to do Clerith, then they should not be including some of Cloti scenes and the Zack scenes in Rebirth. It makes it really messy, and I would have a hard time really liking Cloud if he ends up with Aerith with some of the decisions he has made already.

Here's the thing, that's my point.

It would be awful, it would be a travesty, but the Re;trilogy now has a pattern of having terrible endings, and with things escalating even more than they did in remake in regards to weird timeline/dimension stuff, I can't help but feel like it's going to happen again that we get another bad ending.

My other worries in regards to advent children is that stuff added in the next game might make it hard to link up with it sensibly. I honestly feel like Kitase and Nomura saying things will remain relatively unchanged and that it will link up with Advent Children is just press talk to keep people happy.

Thanks for the reply though, very much appreciated.

 

[Legend45]

I mean, I suppose it is possible. I feel like it would be pretty a shitty thing to do to Tifa and Zack though.

If they really want to do Clerith, then they should not be including some of Cloti scenes and the Zack scenes in Rebirth. It makes it really messy, and I would have a hard time really liking Cloud if he ends up with Aerith with some of the decisions he has made already.

Thing is, the writers have expressly stated they’d be leaving things less open for interpretation. So ambiguity is definitely not the route to go.

Plus, I think this all could largely still end up with Advent Children. Just some small thinks like Kyrie would be weird. But even TKAA can still play out mostly the same, just that Kyrie knows the group.

And welcome!

No offense to Aerith but if a Clerith ending happened it would ruin the entierty of Advant Children. Cloud's guilt and regret is part of the core theme of the movie of acceptance and forgiveness and letting go of the past. Not only that it would just feel fucking disgusting to watch Tifa take care of Danzel and Marelene knowing Cloud is in love with another woman the whole time.

 

[Hellenic]

With that said, I can't help but feel like Clerith will be canon in the re;trilogy, or atleast the ambiguity around it will be brought back from the dead again, and before I go any further I'm a Cloti, and firmly believe it is THE pairing of ff7 by the time of Advent Children.

They went out of their way to give us a clear answer to the Clerith ship in Rebirth right here and showed us exactly why it won't work out. Aerith just can't get over Zack fully and Cloud can't give Aerith what she wants from him.

My reasoning for this is as follows; I assume most of us accept that a Clerith ending of this story is a bad one, and would only serve to hurt basically all three characters involved in the original love triangle. I also assume that most of us are partial to the belief that Remake and Rebirth had, to put it in the best way possible, weak endings, since it is the general opinion I see online.

Yes. Said ending would remove any purpose for Zack and Tifas characters and what they are already setting up for them and they're not gonna be stupid enough to do all this for nothing.

So far, that leaves us with 2/3 games in this trilogy having bad endings, and now that it's a pattern and the story will only get more derailed from here on out, it's not unfair to assume the third game will also have a bad ending with all of the dimension jumping stuff being even more prominent.

I do think the third games ending will at the very least not introduce anymore new questions and mysteries, as it should be the closure to this trilogy, so they need to explain away what they've set up so far and have a proper finale to account for that.

Maybe I'm just being pessimistic since I'm just kind of like that, but I can't help but feel that, with Aerith "dead", the perfect spot for Square Enix to give her screentime and importance in the third game will be to include her in the lifestream sequence, especially with the new addition of Cloud deluding himself about Aeriths death. The same way Square Enix wasn't going to make Remake without Sephiroth having a role, I feel that there's no way Square Enix would develop an entire ff7 game with Aerith, (one of the most iconic and marketable video game characters ever) only having as much of a role as Zack did in Rebirth.

Aerith appearing in the lifestream sequence, in my eyes atleast, cheapens it HEAVILY. It is basically the moment in the original it tells the player "Cloud was living a lie all long, and that he has deeply ingrained feelings for another woman". It is a pivotal moment for the Cloud and Tifa pairing, and Aerith being there, honestly, would kind of ruin it, because now it isn't a Cloud and Tifa moment, it's just a story beat like any other.

Aerith is definitely gonna be having more of a presence than she had at this point in OG, but i don't expect her to play any kinda major role for the Lifestream scene, as it's a lot of the devs favourite sequence in the OG game and i imagine they wanna put their heart and soul into that, not to mention the prep work they have already done for it with the Gongaga Tifa Lifestream experience we had in Rebirth. I have full faith that they will deliver on this part of the game at the very least.

Pair all this with the fact the third game "linking up" with Advent Children doesn't seem possible due to characters like Kyrie being repurposed, and that the third game will probably have a terrible ending like the two that came before it, I think the Re;trilogy will almost definitely have either:

1) A Clerith ending
2) Way too much ambiguity, with it favouring Clerith.

There are definitely elements that can make AC and the other later material feel disjointed in places, so not really sure how they'll handle that.

Genuinely not sure how you came to the conclusion that we are either getting a Clerith ending or them favouring Clerith in the third game at all, when the third game is very much gonna be the Cloud and Tifa show for the most part and Rebirth already basically closing up the Clerith chapter for us. They're not gonna backpedal after going this hard for the Cloti and Zerith setups that need payoffs.

 

[GamerSkull]

Here's the thing, that's my point.

It would be awful, it would be a travesty, but the Re;trilogy now has a pattern of having terrible endings, and with things escalating even more than they did in remake in regards to weird timeline/dimension stuff, I can't help but feel like it's going to happen again that we get another bad ending.

My other worries in regards to advent children is that stuff added in the next game might make it hard to link up with it sensibly. I honestly feel like Kitase and Nomura saying things will remain relatively unchanged and that it will link up with Advent Children is just press talk to keep people happy.

Thanks for the reply though, very much appreciated.

I understand what you’re saying. A pattern of bad endings means that a third one will have it too. But I don’t see how Clerith plays into this.

Part 3’s ending could be bad even with a Cloti ending too, you know.

Let’s be honest, the endings are bad because they convolute the story, but nothing has actually been changed much as far as the events that occurred.

We will probably have a bunch of whisper timeline bullshit with Part 3’s ending, even if it ends the same as OG.

 

[abzy1200]

My other worries in regards to advent children is that stuff added in the next game might make it hard to link up with it sensibly. I honestly feel like Kitase and Nomura saying things will remain relatively unchanged and that it will link up with Advent Children is just press talk to keep people happy.

Sorry for double posting but I felt I should have elaborated on this a little more. "stuff" here is referring to new developments like the war with Wutai and the Glenn stuff. and also Cloud's whole guilt arc in advent children, It feels like they are pushing it into the re;trilogy, so having it done again in Advent Children would feel redundant.

 

[GamerSkull]

Sorry for double posting but I felt I should have elaborated on this a little more. "stuff" here is referring to new developments like the war with Wutai and the Glenn stuff. and also Cloud's whole guilt arc in advent children, It feels like they are pushing it into the re;trilogy, so having it done again in Advent Children would feel redundant.

Personally, I could still buy Cloud going through a depressive state, but then followed by another one two years later when he’s unable to deal with Denzel’s geostigma.

Sometimes, mental health be like that.

Thing is, if they fail on Part 3. Then they’ll fail with what they’ve already set up. They won’t just completely shift plot points to fail.

Part 3’s ending will probably be just as convoluted as Part 1 and 2. But I fail to see how Clerith would play into it.

 

[abzy1200]

Personally, I could still buy Cloud going through a depressive state, but then followed by another one two years later when he’s unable to deal with Denzel’s geostigma.

Sometimes, mental health be like that.

I guess, but it would still make Advent Children feel redundant. Especially when Sephiroth shows up and he's not omni or meta or whatever, he's just back to normal evil Sephiroth, the same goes for Aerith, I feel like that is the biggest disjoint and why "linking up" with advent children would just seem awkward.

 

[GamerSkull]

I guess, but it would still make Advent Children feel redundant. Especially when Sephiroth shows up and he's not omni or meta or whatever, he's just back to normal evil Sephiroth, the same goes for Aerith, I feel like that is the biggest disjoint and why "linking up" with advent children would just seem awkward.

I get what you’re saying. I just don’t really see your reasoning behind the Clerith portion of it.

“Parts 1 and 2 had bad endings. Therefore bad Part 3 ending = Clerith”.

The writers are still gonna try to pay off what they have set up. If Part 3’s ending is bad, it will be a bad payoff to what’s already set up.

 

[GamerSkull]

I guess, but it would still make Advent Children feel redundant. Especially when Sephiroth shows up and he's not omni or meta or whatever, he's just back to normal evil Sephiroth, the same goes for Aerith, I feel like that is the biggest disjoint and why "linking up" with advent children would just seem awkward.

I actually don’t think we’re going to see guilt-ridden Cloud tbh. I think whatever guilt he’ll have will mostly be used to play into the breakdown at the Northern Cave.

Then he won’t be awake again until after Mideel, where the writers will want to show the Real Cloud, which probably won’t be the moody AC Cloud yet.

And then when all the dust settles, AC can tackle the guilty Cloud.

Sure, certain things that have happened now do create some very slight incongruities with AC and TKAA but I think they can still fit in for the most part.

Actually, tbh the only thing I can think of is that Kyrie knows the group, but they have so little interaction in the book that it isn’t that bad. The only real incongruity is that she doesn’t have any lines that imply she’s known them.