New Novel, FINAL FANTASY VII Lateral Biography TURKS: The Kids Are Alright [SPOILER THREAD]

[Octo]

I don't agree with that (the things he says to Kadaj just before he goes gangster on him in AC/C must have been sincere), but I don't entirely disagree either. I think he genuinely feels he needs to repay the world, but still wants to be someone important.

That may be the case, and really he needs to show some humilty. This still doesn't explain why the Turks want to help him achieve that 'importance'.

Also, I don't really think Rufus could be important again, the Shinra name is mud. Sounds like wishful thinking on his part.

 

[Splintered]

You have 9 major characters (8 are alive), an army of turks, and even more additions because of DoC.

So now you want to make the novel's main character someone the fandom of over a decade doesn't know?

...



Who is making these decisions?

 

[Octo]

Who is making these decisions?

Spoiler

 

[Shademp]

You have 9 major characters (8 are alive), an army of turks, and even more additions because of DoC.

So now you want to make the novel's main character someone the fandom of over a decade doesn't know?

...



Who is making these decisions?

Kazushige Nojima, the guy who wrote the majority of the original FFVII's story (along with Yoshinori Kitase).

Spoiler

From the left: Tetsuya Nomura, Yusuke Naora, Yoshinori Kitase, Kazushige Nojima.

I want to punch Kitase's smug face, so badly...

Edit: Oh, I see Octo already posted the same pic. *troll face*

 

[Octo]

Kazushige Nojima, the guy who wrote the majority of the original FFVII's story (along with Yoshinori Kitase).

Spoiler

From the left: Tetsuya Nomura, Yusuke Naora, Yoshinori Kitase, Kazushige Nojima.

I want to punch Kitase's smug face, so badly...

Fucking hell, does Nomura cosplay as his characters all day?

 

[Splintered]

I want to punch Kitase's smug face, so badly...

tbh, out of all the interviews I've seen with Kitase, not once have I ever seen him change expressions. I think it's impossible for him.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Unpopular opinion ahoy:

I like the idea of a story set in the FFVII world that centres around ordinary people. (ie, not Turks, not mako-enhanced, with no gun-arm protheses or monsters buried in their bellies). I am intrigued by what it would be like to be an average person living in their world. I think we're all agreed that Cloud's story - his 'hero's journey' is complete: he has achieved healing, saved his world, been reborn as his true self, and found love. It would be tedious for Jenova/Sephiroth to return yet again, and it would just be silly for their world to encounter a whole new threat. So I really think the idea of a detective story delving into the past has immense possiblities. But the proof of the pudding is in the eating, all the same.

You can have a look at this story for one version of Shinra's crimes coming home to roost.
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6201074/1/bMightier_b_bThan_b_The_bGun_b

I think Rufus is possessed by the spirit of the zeitgeist and believes his own PR, which incidentally he masterminds. If he put the right spin on it - which he is trying to do - he could lay all the blame on his father (which is where it belongs) and still emerge as a leader. I think the Turks stay with him because a) Reeve won't employ them, b) they are gamblers, and c) he allows them to do the kinds of things they like to do.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Exactly, so why the Turks still go along with it is a mystery. Lets not forget that given what we learn in Before Crisis, Rufus had the Turks over a barrel regarding Veld. Now he doesn't exert that power over them, why are they still taking his orders?

Wasn't it the other way around? They were holding him captive (for like three years) to keep President Shinra from having them all killed?

And then, when Veld was captured and set to be executed, Rufus told them where to find him, and because of that -- as well as because he got his father not to execute them at the end of BC -- they became loyal to him.

 

[Octo]

It was my understanding that Rufus lied to the President, and confirmed that Veld and Elfe had been 'killed' by Tseng. Persuaded the President not to kill them, and then basically had the Turks become loyal to him in exchange for his silence. He could easily just reveal that Veld and Elfe were alive if he wanted the Turks executed, so it was basically blackmail.

Maybe I am wrong, its been a while since I read the script.

EDIT: Actually looking at the epilogue its a lot more vague than that, but Rufus basically says that he didn't do anything for the Turks sake, and that they can show gratitude through their work.

Thing is, if there wasn't a threat there from Rufus, it makes even less sense to me why they wouldn't then fuck Shinra off. No sense in being grateful to the company that has fucked them around so much, unless it was to protect Veld and Elfe :ho hum:

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I don't remember there being an element of blackmail to it, but I wouldn't doubt that Rufus's thinking was that if he saved the Turks they would back him when he finally assassinated his father (I think Rufus made some comment toward the end of BC about happening upon an idea that would put the company in his own hands soon).

In any case, after everything Rufus and the Turks did to and for each other (he ordered Fuhito to kill them, then they saved him when Fuhito betrayed him; then they held him as their hostage for three years, and then he told them where to find Veld and arranged for their survival), I think it's awesome that they have this loyalty to each other.

In that sense, the Turks may have only felt "Shin-Ra's finished" at the end of FFVII because they believed they'd lost Rufus.

 

[Octo]

I guess its possible. The problem that I have is that although Rufus told them where to find Veld, and saved them from execution, he only ever seems to do things to serve himself.

I feel that the Turks are quite a conflicted bunch, and are prone to the occassional twinge of concience about their actions, whereas Rufus is just a massive bastard

We're getting into realms of fanon here, but I think that the Turks never had a choice, I get the feeling that they were all 'recruited' quite young. Its like now they're institutionalised or something. That they discovered the ugly truth before its too late, so now all they can do is survive. I guess I just figured that they'd escape as soon as they got the chance :/

 

[Max Payne]

Wasn't it the other way around? They were holding him captive (for like three years) to keep President Shinra from having them all killed?

And then, when Veld was captured and set to be executed, Rufus told them where to find him, and because of that -- as well as because he got his father not to execute them at the end of BC -- they became loyal to him.

My god the fucking story in that game is stupid.

 

[Roger]

I'm so superlate to ths topic. I read "The kids are alright" and I thought it was one of you guys doing a clever jab at Reno and Rude AC's childsaving personas. Which brings me the first thing I have to comment on.

That was one of the problems with the Compilation treatment of the Turks. In FFVII they meant business. Yes, they were pretty silly at times and weren't inherently evil but they didn't have any problem killing an entire poblation (or part of it anyway) in the game's first 5 hours (?). Then in AC they're saving orphan kids in Edge. The most terribly ironic thing is that who knows, maybe they were the ones who killed these children's families (one way or another) .

It's just a terrible attempt to make them nicer and softer and that isn't the way it works. Of course, redemption IS possible, of course it is and it doesn't have to involve death, but it needs lots and lots of character development to make these changes credible and coherent, CD that they didn't got in the movie. They're probably the biggest Karma Houdinis on the whole story. With a lot of Draco in Leather Pants on the fandom.

There's no maybe. Reno was directly responsible for killing Denzel's parents then Cloud had to listen to them whine to him about how he should act for the kids' sake. Often when I watch AC I likw to pretend Cloud is just depressed that he has to live in the Compilation world, rather then the awesome FFVII world.

I think that's the point Rufus had a line in OTWTAS Episode Shinra that was basically saying the whole 'Meteor memorial' was a placeholder for the new Shinra Building. I think everything Rufus does is for Rufus' sake.

I don't agree with that (the things he says to Kadaj just before he goes gangster on him in AC/C must have been sincere), but I don't entirely disagree either. I think he genuinely feels he needs to repay the world, but still wants to be someone important.

I think he wants to repay his debt. AND he wants to still rule the world which always thought he was gonna end up doing since he was a kid.

Unpopular opinion ahoy:

I like the idea of a story set in the FFVII world that centres around ordinary people. (ie, not Turks, not mako-enhanced, with no gun-arm protheses or monsters buried in their bellies). I am intrigued by what it would be like to be an average person living in their world. I think we're all agreed that Cloud's story - his 'hero's journey' is complete: he has achieved healing, saved his world, been reborn as his true self, and found love. It would be tedious for Jenova/Sephiroth to return yet again, and it would just be silly for their world to encounter a whole new threat. So I really think the idea of a detective story delving into the past has immense possiblities. But the proof of the pudding is in the eating, all the same.

Me too. I like the idea of the ACTUAL FFVII world being expanded and explored further, rather then entirely new elements being introduced into it. And seeing how the world sees Cloud & Co and the meteor incident and Shinra and the Turks. Worth a read IMO.

It was my understanding that Rufus lied to the President, and confirmed that Veld and Elfe had been 'killed' by Tseng. Persuaded the President not to kill them, and then basically had the Turks become loyal to him in exchange for his silence. He could easily just reveal that Veld and Elfe were alive if he wanted the Turks executed, so it was basically blackmail.

Maybe I am wrong, its been a while since I read the script.

EDIT: Actually looking at the epilogue its a lot more vague than that, but Rufus basically says that he didn't do anything for the Turks sake, and that they can show gratitude through their work.

Thing is, if there wasn't a threat there from Rufus, it makes even less sense to me why they wouldn't then fuck Shinra off. No sense in being grateful to the company that has fucked them around so much, unless it was to protect Veld and Elfe :ho hum:

I don't remember there being an element of blackmail to it, but I wouldn't doubt that Rufus's thinking was that if he saved the Turks they would back him when he finally assassinated his father (I think Rufus made some comment toward the end of BC about happening upon an idea that would put the company in his own hands soon).

In any case, after everything Rufus and the Turks did to and for each other (he ordered Fuhito to kill them, then they saved him when Fuhito betrayed him; then they held him as their hostage for three years, and then he told them where to find Veld and arranged for their survival), I think it's awesome that they have this loyalty to each other.

In that sense, the Turks may have only felt "Shin-Ra's finished" at the end of FFVII because they believed they'd lost Rufus.

I guess its possible. The problem that I have is that although Rufus told them where to find Veld, and saved them from execution, he only ever seems to do things to serve himself.

I feel that the Turks are quite a conflicted bunch, and are prone to the occassional twinge of concience about their actions, whereas Rufus is just a massive bastard

We're getting into realms of fanon here, but I think that the Turks never had a choice, I get the feeling that they were all 'recruited' quite young. Its like now they're institutionalised or something. That they discovered the ugly truth before its too late, so now all they can do is survive. I guess I just figured that they'd escape as soon as they got the chance :/

As far as I can tell Veldt, Cissnei, Elfe and their bunch DID tell Rufus to screw off. Reno, Tseng and Rude are a seperate faction. In Case of Shinra this is very clear. All the other Turks are just living their lives, owing only loyalty to Veldt, they are friendly with Reno and co, they aren't working together anymore.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Often when I watch AC I likw to pretend Cloud is just depressed that he has to life in the Compilation world, rather then the awesome FFVII world.

I like your thinking.

As far as I can tell Veldt, Cissnei, Elfe and their bunch DID tell Rufus to screw off. Reno, Tseng and Rude are a seperate faction. In Case of Shinra this is very clear. All the other Turks are just living their lives, owing only loyalty to Veldt, they are friendly with Reno and co, they aren't working together anymore.

But but but, in ACC Reno specifically mentions the 'other employees' , asks Rude whether they have 'heard anything', and states, with delight, that these 'other employees', ie the BC Turks, have started coming back to work. I predict that by the time this new spinoff story comes out, Cissnei et al will have their feet back under their old desks like they've never been away, and they'll all be making out with each other in the materia cupboard like they used to do when Veld was still in charge.

 

[Roger]

But but but, in ACC Reno specifically mentions the 'other employees' , asks Rude whether they have 'heard anything', and states, with delight, that these 'other employees', ie the BC Turks, have started coming back to work. I predict that by the time this new spinoff story comes out, Cissnei et al will have their feet back under their old desks like they've never been away, and they'll all be making out with each other in the materia cupboard like they used to do when Veld was still in charge.

Yeah, the japanese translation even had it saying "the old crew", which definitely referred to the BC Turks. But still, Rufus may have convinced them after a while but they didn't just mindlessly serve him even when he was missing and he hadn't even vocalized any intention to put Shinra back together yet. Reno's sales pitch may have been better then the one he tried on Cloud.

 

[Fangu]

Awkay people, let's post spoilers and stuffs in here instead of hito's project thread

 

[Octo]

Damn you people! I was just about to go to sleep and then I see this!

Sooo

Spoiler

Please someone tell me that Corneo only appears in flashback? Because doesn't anyone stay fucking dead in this universe? Having him alive would detract from the beauty and significance of his death

*goes back to sleep again

 

[Shademp]

Spoiler

I really hope there is some mistake here... Corneo, still alive? HE FRICKIN' DIED. I can accept Tseng, Rufus, Sephiroth etc.
But the return of ANOTHER character presumed dead? Don Corneo of all people?! Are the Turks really that incompetent?
This better turn out to be about the legacy left behind by Corneo, rather than him being actually alive.

 

[Strangelove]

Spoiler

Judging from the blog it came from, he is alive

 

[Shademp]

Spoiler

Judging from the blog it came from, he is alive

Spoiler

For now I'll retain the vain hope that the blog was simply poorly written. I am taking these news way too personally atm, wanting to do terrible, illegal things to Nojima u-hum I better stop there.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

The Lifestream tasted Corneo, and spat him back out again.

 

[Alex Strife]

Maybe just

Spoiler

Aerith, Tifa and Cloud's pictures

are "alive"? I mean, he freaking fell from that high place so... wat.

 

[Strangelove]

Spoiler

It was talking about him being alive before even mentioning the pictures, so it seems definitely about Corneo.

 

[Tetsujin]

Goddamn, Corneo. Can't you even die right? D=

 

[Octo]

The Lifestream tasted Corneo, and spat him back out again.

Thats extra-vinegary balls for you ......sorry.

I really cannot fathom that he's still alive. He's not mako enhanced, he hasn't had any kind of special survival training. He's just a fat priapic bastard who wears too much aftershave.

.....So does this mean that the Wutai Sidequest isn't canon then?