SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[looneymoon]

Also Riley, the boy so bland he.... bland.

Riley is the great unifier in the Buffy ship wars because no one gives a fuck about him

 

[Eerie]

When they say stuff like "I wanted to incorporate players feelings, but there are no branching paths" they never explain what that means?

Well it's the affection mechanism Nomura was describing; he wants the player to be able to push a little, but in the end there's only one path that leads to Tifa.

 

[Yoru]

When they say stuff like "I wanted to incorporate players feelings, but there are no branching paths" they never explain what that means?

It's just FF7 OG description lol

I can say Tifa is my girlfriend, and show Aerith i'm not interested. But I have to go save her. She'll still talk about the date she owns me or ask Cait Sith in the middle of a temple if we are a great couple (excuuuuuuse me ? WTF girl) I was able to tell the game how I felt about Tifa, but it didn't care, I have to follow the script.

Same if I promise Aerith to show her the Highwind one day, she still dies, and my subconscious is still explaining to Tifa i'm her simp.

Here is your "incorporate players feelings but no branching paths"

Or tl;dr = You can choose who you want to go to Disneyland with

 

[Stiggie]

Well it's the affection mechanism Nomura was describing; he wants the player to be able to push a little, but in the end there's only one path that leads to Tifa.

Yeah, I think so to...BUT, that's my interpreting that line. They could have been concrete about it.

 

[Empyrea]

Unless it's something like this (which the one in the CA date is demonstrably not), then no, hard disagree that sitting apart is a romantic trope.
Edit: A little late to that party, but I just caught up haha

 

[Yoru]

Unless it's something like this (which the one in the CA date is demonstrably not), then no, hard disagree that sitting apart is a romantic trope.
Edit: A little late to that party, but I just caught up haha

I think I could accept this CA interpretation if there were no points of comparison in the FF7 spectrum.

Because yes, why not, Cloud might be embarrassed. We could be dealing with a character who likes to play aloof in order to be desired...

... But the problem is that there is an element of comparison. In exactly the same situation at exactly the same time.

And that's Tifa. Whom he can't stop looking at when she's looking away, and with whom he takes the lead when she's the one who doesn't dare take the first step.

That's why I can't go along with this interpretation. Because we've seen how he reacts when he wants the moment to be romantic or when he's interested in the girl in front of him (because you know, he's gonna kiss her)

So yes... I'm really sorry if anyone takes it the wrong way, but I don't see anything on screen other than someone comforting a dear comrade (who just mentioned her ex again when we're supposed to tell her we saw him die with our own eyes)

I don't feel like I'm being sneaky when I say this or that I'm trying to diminish the slightest impact that doesn't go my way. I just feel like I'm being logical about what I'm being shown and told on the screen.

 

[abzy1200]

Hard disagree, I don't get why so many people say this. I really thing this is peoples assumptions speaking. You didn't have the context back then so you were more willing to assume that tropes are correct.
I think Aerith and Cloud are presented far more romantically in the remake than in the OG. On a scale of 0 to 10 of how much romance there is I'd give Aerith and Cloud a 0 in the OG, there is literally nothing. I might bump it up to 1, with the caveat that the game ALSO had a 1 or higher on the scale of "portraying this romance as being somehow wrong".

This is the crux of the whole " why show romance if it's not romantic" thing, or the "the date is definitely romantic" position.
Yes, these are romantic situations, but that doesn't mean that these situations exist to serve to tell the story of a beginning romance. We always have to ask ourselves: "what purpose does this scene have in the greater narrative", rather than just looking at how an individual scene might be romantic or not. Don't like at the puzzle pieces, look at their place in the whole.

With just about every single "romantic" Aerith scene there is not just an undercurrent of romance, but also an undercurrent of showing how this romance is "not how it's supposed to be". The Tifa factor is always there, the Zack factor is always there, Cloud is obstinate, the Tifa reveal serves to explain why, on a second viewing we're supposed to understand why Cloud is so distant, even on the date with Aerith Tifa is always in the back of his mind, and the same thing goes for Zack. In context these "romantic" scenes serve to tell the story of Aeriths tragic attempts to move on from Zack and live her life, the fact that Cloud is channeling Zack in some way highlights that tragedy and adds more context. But this also serves to soften the inevitable failure somewhat. Her not getting Cloud is less painful if Cloud isn't truly who she's searching for. In rebirth I'd say the Cloud Aerith dynamic is made way more romantic than in the OG. Maybe a 3/10, the only problem is that the implication of the wrongness of it is also increased to about a 9/10.

Alternatively this doesn't hold true. If Aerith and Cloud is presented as genuine it's essentially just a hard "fuck you" towards Zack and Cloud, there is no silver lining here, they're just irrelevant characters compared to the aforementioned "HIM" and his ancient magical heroine stereotype.
Needless to say, I hate this interpretation with a fiery passion.

Well, I agree with everything that you've said here.

I should have elaborated a bit more, but yeah, Cloud and Aerith had a 'thing' in the OG technically, but when Aerith is chasing a ghost and Cloud is acting the part of that ghost, do they really?

Imagine a situation where Cloud has to come clean about his feelings if this were the case: "Yeah, even though I was yearning for you my whole life, and shaped my aspirations on how to be worthy of you Tifa, a short time with Aerith while I was living a lie really makes me waver a bit." I don't think there's an easier way to make someone feel like shit about themselves than something like this happening. Really makes someone feel inferior to the other person

Basically this.

To add a little bit more on this, a version of this story where Cloud still has romantic feelings for Aerith after he regains himself has seriously negative implications for his character. Refer to the final scenes of the game, and Advent Children.

And on Tifa's side of things: This would be unbelievably detrimental to her relationship with Cloud. Tifa's a relatively insecure person, her hearing that the man shes loves, loves another (at the same time or not) would have an even more profound impact on her than it already would on the average person simply because she's insecure, and she is especially when it comes to her relationship with Cloud (worried he's going to leave, if they can be considered a family or not, if he loves her etc.). It would essentially be all her worries from CoT come true. I don't remember where it's from, but somewhere it's stated that Tifa has 'complex feelings towards Aerith as a woman', so having these complex feelings actually be founded would make it harder for Tifa to cherish Aerith's memory, and would leave a bad taste in my mouth that Aerith had a comparable impact on Cloud (in a romantic sense) in a few weeks while he wasn't entirely himself to the impact Tifa had on him since he was a child, the impact that Tifa had on him in 18~ years. (since Cloud missed out on five of them).

The way I'm going to put this might sound silly or something, but from what I gather, Cleriths seem to think either:

18 years with Tifa=a few weeks with Aerith (while he's not himself)

18 years with Tifa>=a few weeks with Aerith (while he's not himself)

18 years with Tifa<a few weeks with Aerith (while he's not himself)

(I'm getting the number 18 from the two years that passed from ff7 to Advent Children)

Again, this reeks of "Tifa isn't as amazing a person as Aerith. Tifa needs to spend years more time with Cloud to make the same headway that Aerith can in only a couple of weeks in his eyes", and I absolutely hate it. Elevating a character by showing how they're supposedly so much more amazing and better than this other person will never benefit said character, it will only make the unlikeable.

Yet again, the main argument against Clerith comes back to: Tifa and Zack.

The thing is, it seems at times that SE wants their cake and eat it too. Not in the "both Aerith and Tifa as viable options" cake, but in that they both want the game to be players choice, but also not.
They're vague, but they're not concrete about the vagueness. They never go "Well, both Tifa and Aerith are viable love interests, if you play more for Tifa then the story is that Cloud loves her always and never waivered and Aerith was only projecting her feelings for Zack onto Cloud, and if you play for Aerith Cloud will have conflicted feelings about both girls but will fall in love with Aerith before she dies and then depending on personal interpretation either go on with Tifa or stay obsessed with Aerith".

They don't say that shit, instead they say stuff like them having no idea if Cloud and Tifa are a couple, and that all answers are valid, while also saying shit like "we have answers to EVERY THING IN THE STORY, even the meaning behind the number of birds in the sky" and "oh, we'll leave less room for interpretation this time and people have imagined stuff wrong".

When they say stuff like "I wanted to incorporate players feelings, but there are no branching paths" they never explain what that means? Does that mean the events are the same but the characters emotions change depending on play style? Does that mean that nothing changes even about the emotions but you can get scenes that reward your interest in a character? What?

A quote I always think about when stuff like this is brought up is Nojima saying:

"Inside, I felt one thing was for sure: Cloud and Tifa would be together. Everybody would be back home where they belonged."

If there really isn't an answer to this whole fiasco, then why does the head writer know for sure that Cloud and Tifa belong together?

Nomura might like being vague at times because he's just like that, but Nojima certainly isn't incredibly vague about this subject.

 

[Empyrea]

I think I could accept this CA interpretation if there were no points of comparison in the FF7 spectrum.

Because yes, why not, Cloud might be embarrassed. We could be dealing with a character who likes to play aloof in order to be desired...

... But the problem is that there is an element of comparison. In exactly the same situation at exactly the same time.

And that's Tifa. Whom he can't stop looking at when she's looking away, and with whom he takes the lead when she's the one who doesn't dare take the first step.

That's why I can't go along with this interpretation. Because we've seen how he reacts when he wants the moment to be romantic or when he's interested in the girl in front of him (because you know, he's gonna kiss her)

So yes... I'm really sorry if anyone takes it the wrong way, but I don't see anything on screen other than someone comforting a dear comrade.

I saw it as romantic on my very quick watch, back when it was just part of leaks. On a closer watch, it was just very bittersweet to me, even without the comparison.

That said, I agree with you. With Tifa's date just there for everyone to see, the difference between how Cloud reacts in each is so easy to see (even much more than in the OG dates, if I'm remembering those correctly.)

 

[Rin]

I just caught up and I think I'm confused lol. This whole discussion started from Clouds mocap actor saying Cloud was concerned for Aerith when he asked if she still likes Zack in Gongaga, right? Then something about the ultimania stating that Cloud is jealous of Zack came up? But if I remember correctly, there's not really any of that sort of commentary in the Rebirth ultimania around scenes. In the Remake ultimania it states that Cloud was jealous/had complicated feelings when Aerith brought Zack up at the park.

There's really nothing to suggest that those feelings have carried over, especially as Cloud himself begins to prioritize his relationship with Tifa, in Rebirth. This is why a lot of people take issue with the idea of Cloud having feelings for both women because it begins to make him look very fickle and cruel.

If he's jealous of Zack in Gongaga, why do his eyes immediately track Tifa as he murmurs to himself about finding another time for them to be alone/talk things out when Aerith is standing right next to her and is clearly upset? It's just a bit "ugly", if you will, which is why I do believe Yama when he says Cloud is pure and showing concern for Aerith and not jealousy. Not that I needed him to confirm that, anyway. I think it's pretty obvious just from how the scenario is presented--especially if you pay close attention to how Cloud actually acts when he's jealous since he wasn't acting like that at all.

Anyway, in my opinion, concern is better than jealousy as it shows Cloud has an emotional investment in Aeriths wellbeing which is what any shipper of CA should want, so I don't see the problem.

 

[pxl_pushr]

I saw it as romantic on my very quick watch, back when it was just part of leaks. On a closer watch, it was just very bittersweet to me, even without the comparison.

That said, I agree with you. With Tifa's date just there for everyone to see, the difference between how Cloud reacts in each is so easy to see (even much more than in the OG dates, if I'm remembering those correctly.)

And that’s them trying to preserve the same feeling as the original. A quick read is supposed to lead you one way, but more knowledge of what’s really going on reveals the truth.

When they make these scenes or even write about them in guides, they have to assume the reader hasn’t played the original, so they won’t say anything that directly spoils a twist that will be in the next game.

 

[Sacky]

I just caught up and I think I'm confused lol. This whole discussion started from Clouds mocap actor saying Cloud was concerned for Aerith when he asked if she still likes Zack in Gongaga, right? Then something about the ultimania stating that Cloud is jealous of Zack came up? But if I remember correctly, there's not really any of that sort of commentary in the Rebirth ultimania around scenes. In the Remake ultimania it states that Cloud was jealous/had complicated feelings when Aerith brought Zack up at the park.

There's really nothing to suggest that those feelings have carried over, especially as Cloud himself begins to prioritize his relationship with Tifa, in Rebirth. This is why a lot of people take issue with the idea of Cloud having feelings for both women because it begins to make him look very fickle and cruel.

If he's jealous of Zack in Gongaga, why do his eyes immediately track Tifa as he murmurs to himself about finding another time for them to be alone/talk things out when Aerith is standing right next to her and is clearly upset? It's just a bit "ugly", if you will, which is why I do believe Yama when he says Cloud is pure and showing concern for Aerith and not jealousy. Not that I needed him to confirm that, anyway. I think it's pretty obvious just from how the scenario is presented--especially if you pay close attention to how Cloud actually acts when he's jealous since he wasn't acting like that at all.

Anyway, in my opinion, concern is better than jealousy as it shows Cloud has an emotional investment in Aeriths wellbeing which is what any shipper of CA should want, so I don't see the problem.

I don't understand what's going on here People thought Cloud was jealous? in the Gongaga sequence where his face is stone walled?. I also don't understand people referring to OG as proof for anything, to be honest, since theres a lot of things in OG that are very much not present in Remake. Like the whole jealousy that Tifa had in the prison cells or anything like that. Which i am so thankful for because we instead get focus on Tifa and Aerith's friendship and character moments not based around the main character boy love interest. Can we not just have Cloud be concerned for a friend who keeps mentioning and looking for a boy who Cloud thinks is dead? thats just showing Clouds development as a character not some stupid shipping crap.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Aaw Tim and Colette, lol. I played that too, haha.

Anyway you can see why sitting at a distance doesn't bother me, especially giving the Ultimanias say they have a thing of being at a distance then getting closer.

 

[eleamaya]

We’ve had the debated canonical Maiden Who Travels The Planet, that arguable canonicity and character assassination as it pertains to Aerith’s treatment of Zack aside

No Zerith blame Aerith rejecting Zack here. When we know how OOC Zack was compared to his CC depiction, we understand. I can even prove that by showing the chat in our circle. And this is not only how he feels towards Aerith, it's also how he feels towards Sephiroth that are OOC.

I also dont get why this novella keeps being brought up, when others written by Benny Matsuyama in FF10 and Resident Evil never get the same treatment in their respective fandoms and people just accept it as non-canon or semi-canon that is overwritten by latest material (because we acknowledge Benny wrote it by all of resourcess he had as Ultimania and Guide Bookwriter/editor). People in FF10 fandom can still say Benny's novella about Yuna in both FF10 and FF10-2 Ultimanias arent canon ALTHOUGH they hate what Nojima writes in Will and X2-5.

Why is it not the same case as FF7?
Fuck the LTD

 

[Maidenofwar]

I'm sure CAs aren't allowed to HC Cloud being jealous when talking to Aerith in Chapter 8 GS either, I mean how dare they even suggest such a thing.

 

[Rin]

I'm sure CAs aren't allowed to HC Cloud being jealous when talking to Aerith in Chapter 8 GS either, I mean how dare they even suggest such a thing.

I mean... HC is HC for a reason lol it's when people tout their HC as canon that's the issue. I don't HC his line in chapter 8 as jealousy bc he says the exact same thing to her even if he's alone. If he's jealous of the idea of her spending time with someone else, why not offer to stay and hang out with her? She could politely reject him and the scenario of him exploring GS alone could continue but that's not what happens. He's just neurotic, in my opinion. But idc if anyone headcanons him as jealous in that moment, it just doesn't logically make sense to consider him being jealous in that moment canonically.

EDIT: Also, his dialogue changes when he talks to Tifa if he's alone. Tifa actually won't mention that she has a headache if Cloud is exploring GS by himself and just encourages him to go off and have fun. Why does the dialogue shift for Tifa and not Aerith? Idk because I'm not the devs lol but they DID shift it, so they could've shifted it for Aerith as well if they wanted to convey that Cloud is jealous of the hypothetical new friend(s) Aerith could be making.

 

[Maidenofwar]

IMHO they could have avoided this by having Tifa and Red handle the Gongaga stuff rather than Cloud bringing up romance and Aerith being like wow you really went there and all that boy you like is a dead loser, if they wanted the party concerned about Aerith, much better ways of handling it.

 

[Empyrea]

Aaw Tim and Colette, lol. I played that too, haha.

Anyway you can see why sitting at a distance doesn't bother me, especially giving the Ultimanias say they have a thing of being at a distance then getting closer.

Wonderful game that one, even if it's so poorly localized that everyone sounds like poets.

Anyway, in that case, you'd remember that both Tim and Colette are very shy characters (to the point that even Colette's internal monologues are ran at 2x speed and are longer than her actual spoken dialogue) and they still sat closer together in that scene.

Just pointing out how they're (this one and the times Aerith invites Cloud to sit next to her) different from each other.

 

[abzy1200]

IMHO they could have avoided this by having Tifa and Red handle the Gongaga stuff rather than Cloud bringing up romance and Aerith being like wow you really went there and all that boy you like is a dead loser, if they wanted the party concerned about Aerith, much better ways of handling it.

Not really. Cloud speaking bad about Zack when Zack was, unbeknownst to him, his late best friend, is important. It adds to the feelings of guilt Cloud would harbor towards Zack if he was going around talking shit about him, when in reality Cloud forgot him and that he was basically his only friend, and an extraordinary friend at that. Zack is relevant to Cloud, Tifa, and Aerith, that's why they handle the situation and not Red, because he has nothing to do with Zack.

 

[nars305]

That's why I can't go along with this interpretation. Because we've seen how he reacts when he wants the moment to be romantic or when he's interested in the girl in front of him (because you know, he's gonna kiss her)

So yes... I'm really sorry if anyone takes it the wrong way, but I don't see anything on screen other than someone comforting a dear comrade (who just mentioned her ex again when we're supposed to tell her we saw him die with our own eyes)

I don't feel like I'm being sneaky when I say this or that I'm trying to diminish the slightest impact that doesn't go my way. I just feel like I'm being logical about what I'm being shown and told on the screen.

This is exactly where I stand with it. I wasn’t going to be invested in Cloud and Tifa if it goes both ways between the girls.

I’m only invested because the game has been building these couples and I want to see where that goes (CT and ZA). If Cloud could have feelings for two girls I would have most likely left Rebirth the same way I left Remake, neutral and uncaring. Because it wouldn’t make sense to me that Cloud can have feelings for Aerith and Tifa, when Tifa loves him, Zack loves Aerith, and Aerith can have feelings for two people as well while saying she doesn’t really know Cloud. It’s too convoluted and I just wouldn’t like that.

I want to see Aerith and Zack reunite as the game has been building, and I want Tifa and Cloud to progress as they do in OG.

 

[Maidenofwar]

I don't know where the Cloud's such an ass that he won't sit next to Aerith narrative goes, but I do know where it leads, to Cloud giving Aerith a mini tour, to him saying Aerith can vent on him, to him holding his hand open for Aerith to take, for him being comfortable enough to do couple poses with her, to him to take photos of her, nothing sneaky about it/I took it boldly, to him still talking to flowers about her, etc, to them getting closer.

 

[nars305]

IMHO they could have avoided this by having Tifa and Red handle the Gongaga stuff rather than Cloud bringing up romance and Aerith being like wow you really went there and all that boy you like is a dead loser, if they wanted the party concerned about Aerith, much better ways of handling it.

I think it being Cloud and Tifa in that scene makes sense because they have an ongoing thing of Tifa and Aerith discussing Cloud.

Aerith knows Tifa knows Zack, and there’s confusion of Cloud telling his story from Zack’s position. So it’s been a story between them three since the beginning of the game when he tells the story at Kalm.

 

[Rin]

Not really. Cloud speaking bad about Zack when Zack was, unbeknownst to him, his late best friend, is important. It adds to the feelings of guilt Cloud would harbor towards Zack if he was going around talking shit about him, when in reality Cloud forgot him and that he was basically his only friend, and an extraordinary friend at that. Zack is relevant to Cloud, Tifa, and Aerith, that's why they handle the situation and not Red, because he has nothing to do with Zack.

100%. It's really important because when Cloud does finally remember, he's so disgusted with himself to the point where he asks how he could have ever forgetten about Zack. He's even upset with Tifa for never bringing him up, accusing her of knowing all along that Zack drowned in the river.

If you remove Cloud from the Gongaga scenario, all of that really wouldn't pack a punch anymore. And it's the one thing, other than Nanaki's trial, that I was really looking forward to in Rebirth when we heard a snippet of the dialogue in that one trailer. I was soooo excited that Cloud was going to remember Zack so much earlier in the story and I'm happy to say I was not let down.

 

[Stiggie]

we instead get focus on Tifa and Aerith's friendship and character moments not based around the main character boy love interest

I've heard a lot of people talk about how its good that they're not jealous in the remake but instead friends and I think I am one of the few people who actually disagrees lol.
For one I don't think there is anything wrong with jealousy, it's a human emotion that's fine to explore so I don't mind it being there. But Aerith and Tifas friendship does come with baggage that I find particularly unpalpable.

If Aerith and Tifa are great friends then Aeriths behavior kinda disgusts me, it's one thing to hit on Cloud in the presence of Tifa if you don't really know her. But to do it while pretending to be great friends, even as a rebound, or maybe especially as a rebound, just really sickens me. In Rebirth anytime Aerith is alone with Cloud it feels like she's waiting to be alone with him so she can stop her "I'm your friend act" with Tifa an stab her in the back while she's not looking.

Imagine being Tifa, having all these heart to hearts with Aerith, helping her with her pain over Zack, talking about boys, you have a date at the GS with Cloud, you then almost kiss him in Gongaga, Aerith is all supportive telling you it'll be alright, you go back to the GS, you kiss Cloud. And then suddenly when no one is watching Aerith uses her ancient powers to go on a dream date with Cloud and following Clerith interpretations confess her feelings to him......I can say it in no other way than FUCK this woman. Right now I can still find some reasons to give Aerith the benefit of the doubt, mostly the fact that I think Aerith is desperately projecting her feelings for Zack onto Cloud even during the dream date, and is only doing it because she knows this is the end and she wants closure. Aka, she is in no way trying to get between Cloud and Tifa here, she knows that there is no outcome to this date that would result in Tifa being hurt since even IF they both had feelings for each other, that date would still be the end of it and Cloud would go on to Tifa.

But really, if there is ANYTHING in p3 that hints at Aerith actually trying to further connect with Cloud in some romantic way past that date....her character is dead to me. And her friendship with Tifa would be to blame for it, because friends don't do that.

I don't HC his line in chapter 8 as jealousy bc he says the exact same thing to her even if he's alone. If he's jealous of the idea of her spending time with someone else, why not offer to stay and hang out with her?

This is what convinced me it wasn't jealousy, the moment he said the same thing while alone the idea of it being jealousy made zero sense to me.

 

[pxl_pushr]

IMHO they could have avoided this by having Tifa and Red handle the Gongaga stuff rather than Cloud bringing up romance and Aerith being like wow you really went there and all that boy you like is a dead loser, if they wanted the party concerned about Aerith, much better ways of handling it.

But then you miss out on another example of Cloud having the social grace of a sledgehammer, his initial badmouthing of Zack which feeds into his following guilt over doing so AND forgetting him, and him showing that, clumsy as he can be at it, he does TRY and console Aerith… he just messes it up so bad that both Aerith and Tifa get upset at him.

And about Ch.8… have whatever HC you wish but keep in mind that they did save Aerith from Shinra HQ like what, last week? And they almost got re-kidnapped by Hojo the day before, and Cloud had to slow-walk her up the mountain because Aerith isn’t some battle-hardened world traveler.

Tifa and Aerith also chuckle at his overreaction, telling me that it’s more him being overprotective which, again, is a step forward for Cloud “not interested” Strife.

My personal headcanon that I wouldn’t really push that hard? Aerith was trying to bait a jealous response from Cloud, but got this reaction instead. Another attempt to “find the real Cloud” but not knowing what to even look for. But again, that’s just my read on it that I really can’t backup beyond trying to see when/how Aerith has been looking through Cloud’s persona to find the real him.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Also, did anyone notice but Tifa during majority of the time is the only one throughout the entire game that reaches/grounds Cloud...no one else does that. I was always curious about that game narrative- they didnt have Aerith step in. Like they were really drilling it in with how much Tifa cares about Cloud and how Tifa's presences snaps him out of everything and how important she is to him (like in the OG but here its like theyre making it blatant but ppl ignore it anyway lol).

I wanted to address this, it's not just Tifa, it's Aerith in Kalm, it's Aerith on Mount Corel, it's Aerith on the first visit to the Gold Saucer, it's Aerith at the end of the Temple of the Ancients, etc, it's Tifa in Gongaga, on Mt Nibel, with Elena in TotA etc, they work together through the game too like in Shinra Manor, and Temple of Ancients. They both do a lot to try and reach and ground Cloud and it works for both of them, like when Cloud remembering Aerith with the flower brings him back at the end of c13, etc.