[Administrative note: For more recent articles with further research and additional perspectives on the subject of the FFVII Love Triangle Debate, please see the following:
—“This just in: A private apology to Clerith fans (in public),” by Squall_of_SeeD (posted as a retraction to and apology for elements of “This just in: The Love Triangle Debate- over”)
—”Dilly Dally, Shilly Shally — An LTD Analysis,” by Squall_of_SeeD
—Reflections on the LTD, by June]
Final Fantasy Seven’s love triangle debate has been raging for the better part of twelve years now, and caused no end of interfandom tensions. For those of you unfamiliar with the whole debacle, I first congratulate you on your luck in remaining free, and I next explain that it is the debate over which of Tifa or Aerith Cloud Strife loves. Many a year, and countless hypotheses have been spent trying to argue that Cloud and Tifa are not a couple despite all the best evidence, and that Cloud and Aerith have a relationship despite the latter’s unfortunate condition. For some time, the love triangle debate has been in what could aptly be described as its death throes. Today, hopefully, we can perform a mercy killing.
Just this morning, our translator Tres dias, who is translating the FFVIII keywords and character profiles, who co-wrote the Dissidia FAQ with Mako Eyes, and who has written a comprehensive FAQ on this subject, received the Final Fantasy 20th Anniversary Ultimania Scenario in the mail. He wanted me to be the one to make this post, and it is my honor to now provide you with his scans, and translations, of page 394 of the guidebook, on ‘For the one I love.’
The header to this section reads
Of direct interest to we fans of Final Fantasy Seven, however, are two images and their associated text, which we have provided, zoomed in on, so those playing at home can check our work.
First, is a picture discussing the Gold Saucer date. The text describing it reads
Secret date
At the Gold Saucer, Cloud receives an invitation from one of his companions. Who comes around with the invitation is dependent on Cloud’s behavior.
Nothing so amazing, no, all it tells us is that the date itself is up to player control, so no one version is ‘official,’ but the next section is not only what hopefully will make for a swift end to the LTD, but also confirms a scenario I have been arguing in favor of for quite a number of years.
As you can see, the image is of Cloud and Tifa’s night under the Highwind. That on a page entitled ‘for the one I love’ is very conclusive in its own right. The text, however, takes it a step further, and reads
The night before the final battle
Thanks to Tifa, Cloud regains himself, and before the final battle with Sephiroth, without using words, he confirms with her that their feelings match.
Read that again. ‘without using words, [Cloud] confirms with [Tifa] that their feelings match.’ So, not only can we unequivocally state that these matching feelings are those of love, but that these feelings of love are confirmed without words. In other words, physically. So, yes, there was almost certainly sex under the Highwind that night. I do not wish to bore everyone with a regurgitation of all the related materials, but this does confirm that yes, Cloud and Tifa’s relationship past this point are that of lovers. And that, my friends, settles the Love Triangle. Even if you don’t want to believe it.
Also of note is that this page shows all the other ‘canon’ couples in the main parties, Ingus and Sara, Cecil and Rosa, Locke and Celes, Squall and Rinoa, Steiner and Beatrix, Zidane and Garnet, and Tidus and Yuna in their moments of revelation. So Cloud and Tifa are certainly in good company, hugging together underneath the Highwind along all the other canon couples of Final Fantasy.
One last thing, before I go. I have one thought, from Tres himself, that he asked me to relate to everyone. That thought is, “All that’s left to say is: Abandon ‘ship!” Wise words indeed, since that ship has been undeniably sunk, if you’ll pardon the pun, by canon.
UPDATE: If you wish to see the translation of the page as a whole, please follow this link to Tres’s translations of what the rest of this page says about revelation of romantic feelings in other games, and what the box in the lower right says about displays of non-romantic feelings.
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OFFICIAL: According to Square Enix’s *relationship charts* found in the FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania, Cloud and Tifa are only *childhood friends* in both Final Fantasy VII and Advent Children.
The FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania provides two relationship charts. One for FFVII and one for AC. By including two charts it is meant to compare and contrast relationships in FFVII to relationships in AC. Essentially, having two charts helps highlight the *changes* the relationships have gone through between FFVII and AC. However, Cloud and Tifa’s relationship does not go through any *changes* because they are referred to as “childhood friends” in both charts.
However, that is not the case for Cloud and Aerith. The FFVII chart states Cloud is Aerith’s “bodyguard.” Then, for the AC chart, it states Cloud feels a, “sense of guilt” towards Aerith. That’s because Cloud failed to protect Aerith — meaning he failed as her bodyguard. The difference between Cloud and Aerith’s two charts was the perfect way for SE to show us how their relationship changed between FFVII and AC — Cloud failed as her “bodyguard” in FFVII, so he feels a sense of “guilt” towards her in AC. Why did they not do the same for Cloud and Tifa? Answer: because Cloud and Tifa’s relationship did not change.
You could possibly argue that Cloud and Tifa have always been childhood friends as well as lovers. But that’s not what the charts say; the charts say they are “childhood friends” only. It mentions nothing about being *lovers*. This means that when SE describes Cloud and Tifa’s relationship as it specifically pertains to AC, they are only “childhood friends”.
In addition, if Cloud and Tifa were childhood friends in FFVII but became lovers in AC, the FFVII chart should say “childhood friends” and the AC chart should say “romantic lovers”. Instead, both the FFVII chart and the AC chart say “childhood friends”. This means their relationship did not evolve beyond childhood friends because they are given the same relationship description in both charts.
If Cloud and Tifa’s relationship had evolved or changed between FFVII and AC, the two charts would have highlighted this change as they did for Cloud and Aerith’s relationship. That was the designed intent of including two charts — to show how the relationships changed between FFVII and AC. Cloud and Tifa’s relationship did not change because they are described as “childhood friends” in both charts.
If anything would tell us that Cloud and Tifa are the *canon* couple, it would be the *relationship* charts. But these two charts tell us that no such evolution in their relationship took place between FFVII and AC. They will forever remain “childhood friends” only.
Additionally, The other relationship charts found in the Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega and the Final Fantasy 20th Anniversary Ultimania also list Cloud and Tifa as “childhood friends” only. In addition, the charts only show favor arrows going from Aerith and Tifa to Cloud. They do not show “favor” arrows going from Cloud to either Aerith or Tifa.
The reason I know the FFVII and AC chart was meant to show an “evolution” in relationships:
In most of the all encompassing FFVII charts they describe Cloud as Aerith’s “bodyguard” and Tifa as Cloud’s “childhood friend”. That’s because that is how both of these relationships *BEGAN*. Therefore, in the all encompassing charts, it seems routine to describe the relationship with a description of how the relationship *began*.
But by including an FFVII chart and an AC chart, it was designed to tell us how relationships were as they pertained specifically to FFVII and AC. Again, please let me explain.
In FFVII, Cloud and Tifa started off as “childhood friends”. So that’s why they are described as “childhood friends” in the FFVII chart. The AC chart should say they started off as “lovers” because of the HAHW scene. But the fact is — SE describes them as “childhood friends” in *BOTH* the FFVII chart and AC chart.
The reason I know that including the FFVII and AC charts was meant to highlight changes is because it shows a change in Cloud and Aerith’s relationship.
Cloud began as Aerith’s “bodyguard” in the FFVII chart, but then felt “guilt” for Aerith in the AC chart. That is telling us that a change in their relationship took place between FFVII and AC.
Now here is where it might get confusing, but I really want to make this point known:
Obviously Cloud evolves beyond “bodyguard” in FFVII, and obviously Cloud’s “guilt” is removed at the end of AC. But this proves my theory that relationship charts almost always tell us how the relationships *begins*. In other words, because Cloud is described as Aerith’s “bodyguard” in the FFVII chart (even though he evolves beyond that in the game), and because Cloud is described as having “guilt” towards Aerith in the AC chart (even though his “guilt” is removed by the end of AC), this tells me that the charts are describing how the relationship *begins* in both FFVII and AC.
Therefore, it is clear that these two charts are meant to tell us how the relationships began in both FFVII and AC. But because Cloud and Tifa are described as “childhood friends” in both the FFVII and AC charts, it means that they begin as “childhood friends” in both time periods. But if the HAHW scene made them a romantic couple, they should have been described as “lovers” not “childhood friends” in the AC chart.
In addition, the all encompassing charts found in the Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega and the Final Fantasy 20th Anniversary Ultimania (which are not separated by FFVII and AC), describe Cloud and Aerith’s relationship with “bodyguard” because that was the very beginning of their relationship. In addition, these all encompassing charts also describe Cloud and Tifa’s relationship as “childhood friends” because that was the very beginning of their relationship.
But what makes the FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania different is that it includes two charts, one for FFVII and one for AC. And as I described above, the FFVII chart tells us how Cloud’s relationship with Aerith begins in FFVII by saying he was her “bodyguard”, and the AC chart tells us how Cloud’s relationship with Aerith begins in AC by saying he feels “guilt” towards her. But we all know that Cloud become more than Aerith’s bodyguard in FFVII, and we all know Cloud’s guilt is removed at the end of AC. So my point is that the FFVII chart and the AC chart tells us how Cloud and Aerith’s relationship *began* during both FFVII and AC.
However, Cloud and Tifa are described as “childhood friends” in both charts despite the HAHW scene supposedly moving them beyond “childhood friends”.
Therefore, because the FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania has two charts and not a single all encompassing chart, the description for Cloud and Tifa’s relationship should be different for both charts as it is for Cloud and Aerith. The FFVII chart should tell us how Cloud and Tifa’s relationship began in FFVII, and the AC chart should tell us how their relationship began in AC. This means that if the HAHW scene made them into an official couple, or if they became lovers during CoT, they should not be described as “childhood friends” in the AC chart. Period.
And although the relationship charts are sometimes inconsistent, SE has consistently labeled Cloud and Tifa as “childhood friends” in every single relationship chart. This means that although SE is sometimes inconsistent with other relationships, they have been consistent with Cloud and Tifa’s relationship. This means the argument of inconsistency does not apply to Cloud and Tifa’s relationship.
Therefore, if the relationship charts show an inconsistency with a certain relationship, that inconsistency is for that relationship only. That does not mean, however, that SE is inconsistent with every relationship. Trying to paint these relationship charts with a broad brush because they discredit Cloti is very telling.
If you can’t show how the “inconsistency” argument applies directly to Cloud and Tifa specifically, your point is not relevant.
A love triangle requires *ADDITIONAL* proof:
A love triangle requires evidence that goes above and beyond the *normal* standard of evidence. Why? Because a love triangle means there is evidence that supports *two* pairings.
The criteria I used to determine whether a couple is canon:
1. An indisputable romantic moment.
2. An official statement by SE.
But because FFVII is a love triangle, *BOTH* CxA and CxT meet these requirements.
The first requirement is “an indisputable romantic moment”. Well, the canon CxA date is on the “For The One I Love” page (FTOIL), and the HAHW scene is also on the FTOIL page. By Cloud being pictured with his two love interests in two canon scenes of romance on the FTOIL page, this means that both of these scenes *PROVE* Cloud loves both women. Therefore, *BOTH* CxA and CxT meet the first requirement.
The second requirement is an “official statement by SE”. Well, the “koibito” quotes are enough for *BOTH* CxA and CxT to meet the second requirement.
Again — this would be enough for a *normal* couple to be declared canon, but it is not enough for a couple in a love triangle to be declared canon because there is equal evidence for both pairings. Therefore, *something* has to tell us that one couple should be declared canon over the other.
For example, Celes x Locke are canon and meet the additional requirements that are required for love triangles. Cloud and Tifa, however, do not meet these additional requirements:
1. Locke x Celes appear on the FTOIL page in a canon scene of romance, but Locke x Rachel do not.
This means one of two things: either Locke x Rachel do not have a romantic scene equal to Locke x Celes (which means that Locke x Celes has stronger evidence) or it means that the FTOIL page is canonizing Locke x Celes because they are the *only* couple from the FFVI love triangle to be portrayed on the FTOIL page. To me, this is meeting the LTD standard of proof that tells us one couple should be declared canon over the other.
If Cloud x Tifa were the only FFVII couple to be portrayed on the FTOIL like Locke x Celes were the only couple from FFVI to be portrayed, Cloud x Tifa would also meet the same standard of proof that is required to determine that one couple should be declared canon over the other in a love triangle.
But because Cloud is pictured with his two love rivals in two romantic scenes that are both canon, Cloud x Tifa do not meet the same standard of proof that Locke x Celes meet.
2. The other compelling piece of evidence that Locke x Celes should be declared canon over Locke x Rachel is because Rachel tells Locke to move on and love Celes.
To me, this is also meeting the higher standard of proof necessary to declare one couple canon over the other in a love triangle. If Aerith had said to Cloud about Tifa, “Give your love to the one who now dwells within your heart…love her..as you loved me,” the LTD would be over.
However, neither of these pieces of compelling evidence are there for Cloud x Tifa. The FTOIL page pictures Cloud with both Aerith and Tifa in two canon scenes of romance, and Aerith does not tell Cloud to love Tifa. In fact, the ending of FFVII tells us Cloud wants to meet Aerith in the Promised Land.
Therefore, both CxA and CxT have romantic scenes that prove Cloud loves both Aerith and Tifa because both of these romantic scenes are canon and included on the FTOIL page. Both couples also have official statements by SE supporting them. This means neither couple is canon over the other.
And the reason I do not accept Advent Children as proof is because 1. the relationship charts that describe Cloud and Tifa as “childhood friends” *only* 2. Everyone in AVALANCHE is dead (and Barret is away on work), which means there are only two people for Denzel to consider his parents by default — Cloud and Tifa 3. Just because Barret is away on work does not mean he isn’t apart of the Seventh Heaven family. Does a parent who travels for work suddenly become excluded from their family? 4. Cloud and Tifa are living together because of rare and unforeseen circumstances. This does not mean they are in a romantic *relationship*. Just look at Cid and Shera living together during FFVII 5. Barret is included in the Seventh Heaven family when Cloud says they will all find a place to call home *together* 6. Barret tells Marlene to take care of the “family” while he is gone 7. Barret rushes back to defend his “family” when he hears they’ve been attacked 7. Marlene is Barret’s daughter. 8. the living arrangement at Seventh Heaven where Cloud has a bed in his own room 9. Nomura’s quote admitting that he doesn’t know the status of Cloud and Tifa’s relatinoship after FFVII ends 10. Tifa admitting she doesn’t know if Cloud loves her
It’s not just because the competitor is dead. It’s about cloud’s real feelings. When he met aerith, his not himself. He’s confused my multiple persona on many reasons. He assume’s Zack’s character because he’s too ashamed of himself (not being able to become soldier and failing to save his friend).
He think’s he’s Zack on liking Aerith (being Zack’s girlfriend and telling him to say hi after he died)
Being 1st class Soldier (Originally Zack has become)
How can you even call it love when you’re not yourself when he’s with Aerith. He always assume the personality of Zack (including his love, protection to Aerith even through her death)
Plus Cloud can only be on his TRUE self when he’s with TIFA. The shy and petite cloud who’s not all that confident! complete opposite of his original character when he met Aerith. So no matter how many times we argue, Cloud can only be cloud when he’s with Tifa. Not with someone else with Aerith.
Again it’s cloud… not the other way around. It’s his feelings~! not her *Aerith*
I must disagree with you. First of all just beacuse Cloud had some of zack’s aspects it doesn’t mean that he’s his true self. In the beggining of the game Cloud is cold and rude to everyone. Even when he reunited with tifa he didn’t agree to help them but only when barret told him he would give him more money. On the other hand Zack has a cheerful personality and is kind to everyone. So how does Cloud mimitates zack’s behavion when they act in a completely different way? Cloud has mixed some of Zack’s memories with his own memories and that’s how he created an alter persona but that doesn’t mean that he isn’t his true self. Also i have to disagree with one more thing. Cloud can only be himself near aerith. When he was young tifa never cared about him and they only shared one conversation when she found out that he is going to join SOLDIER. Also Tifa expected so much from Cloud and that’s why i think he can’t be his true self near her. I don’t mean to insult you or argue with you i’m just saying my opinion.
he isn’t his true self*
@Ravena isnt it?
on your first paragraph> Nomura said that yes, death should be sudden just like how in normal people were. You didnt expect it and Aerith is definitely cloud ‘love interest’ in the first part of the story. Her death would make you all go nuts *what the hell* and it meant to happen. They wanted to implement the strong connection of cloud and Aerith and further develop the story more on how the ‘real cloud’ would discover himself and see what’s really inside his heart. AGAIN IT’S HIS FEELINGS NOT HER.
it should also answer your second paragraph.
ON THE CASE OF TIFA. Tifa was ackward and question Cloud ‘do you love me?’ she asked it when cloud is sleeping but she knew cloud would hear it. And as expected he woke up and ackward and shy, Tifa change the question ‘do you love marlene?’. But if you look at the story it’s a puzzle, she said marlene but she’s actually referring to herself. She’s just too shy to said it directly and cloud answers ‘ Yes, but sometimes I dont know how to approach her’.
she answered ‘even though we’ve been together for soo long’
and he said “yes”
see?? he does love her more than words they connect.
on the sex part. I think one of the creators said before that it was just propose during the time ff7 is made. But they didnt gave it more importance because it will create issue.
and you asked “If Cloud and Tifa had already confirmed their feelings for each other in the Highwind scene, why does Cloud say at the end that he ‘could meet HER there’ in the Promised Land?”
Crisis Core LOVELESS ACT 12 will answer the question:
Though the prisoner escapes, he is gravely wounded
His life is saved, however
By a woman of the opposing nation
He begins a life of seclusion with her
Which seems to hold the promise of eternal bliss
But as happiness grows, so does guilt
Of not fulfilling the oath to his friends
This is loveless act 2 in crisis core. Just like in the poem, cloud is happy being with Tifa but as his happiness grows. So does his ‘guilt’ on unable to save both of his friends Zack and Aerith. He is unable to forgive himself for his failure in the past. Again because of guilt if HE COULD MET HER THERE, he can asked forgiveness. IT’S ABOUT GUILT and Cloud’s self confidence is soo down.
Again you asked “Then, when he gets Geostigma, he lives away from Tifa and the kids, why? Isn’t it that when you have something terminal that may end your life, you’d spend it with those you love?”
IN CASE OF TIFA and ADVENT CHILDREN COMPLETE it was said that cloud move away to find a cure for Densel. If he is finding a cure for the sick, knowing you’re sick too you dont want the other members of the family to have the same disease. And Geostigma is malignant at that time. Combined it with ‘guilt’ he stayed at Aerith’s church.
Additionally in “Maiden who travels the planet ” it was Aerith herself said that she never really knew the real cloud. That the ‘real one’ actually hides from his shames and guilt. That she just knew him when Tifa help him unlocks his real memories of him *in FF7*. In this novel she said
“You did it, Tifa. Thank you… I’m a little jealous of you but, do take care of Cloud and the upper world.” Tifa embraced Cloud tightly as he returned to his senses. Aerith watched as both of them returned to the surface while smiling like an affectionate mother.
http://www.finalfantasykingdom.net/maidenwhotravelstheplanet.php
This is canon: I understand if you want a couple so badly you wont see the points but in every ff7 novels. There is always a hint on how the 2 of them is meant for each other.
Again i have to disagree with one thing. In Maiden who travels the planet aerith never stated that he din’t meet the real cloud. She was just confused because sephiroth said that cloud is just a clone and that he never truly existed and she just refused to believed that because she has seen his true self. That’s the reason after the lifestream event aerith felt releaved because she find out that what she sensed wasn’t a lie. Also in maiden of the planet it is clearly revealed that aerith was the one that put tifa’s spirit next to cloud’s in order for the lifestream event to occur. So in a way aerith saved cloud and then she tells tifa to take care of him not because she wants to see them together as a couple but because she’s the only one that can take care of him in the world of the living
50 Epic Reasons to Support Cloud x Aerith
1. “Cloud was her friend, her *koibito* (lover in Japanese) – a symbol of what was important to her, and someone to be protected.” ~Case of Lifestream: White, Square Enix
2. Nomura of Square Enix doesn’t know the nature of Cloud and Tifa’s relationship *AFTER* the HAHW scene:
“For example, I was frequently asked if there had been romantic relationship between Tifa and Cloud for two years, after FF7 ended, but I don’t have any clue.” ~Nomura, Dorimaga interview, published at Flaregamer
3. Of the love triangles on SE’s “For The One I Love Page” (FTOIL), Cloud Strife is the only hero involved in a love triangle pictured with both of his romantic love interests in two canon scenes of romance (see the first row of images). Since Cloud is pictured with both Aerith and Tifa on a page discussing romantic love, the FFVII love triangle is the only unsolved Final Fantasy love triangle.
Some say that because the caption under Cloud and Aerith’s date doesn’t directly mention Aerith by name, it somehow invalidates Cloud and Aerith’s presence on the FTOIL page. However, the Cloud x Aerith date *IS* canon. Therefore, the caption is irrelevant. The caption under Cloud and Aerith’s was there to represent *ALL* the dates on the FTOIL page because *ALL* the dates are romantic (ie: because they are *DATES*). However, SE pictured Cloud and Aerith’s date because it is the *canon* date, and because we are meant to apply the FTOIL page directly to their canon date. The reason we only see the HA Highwind scene on the FTOIL page is because it would have been inappropriate to discuss or include the LA Highwind scene on a page titled “For The One I Love”. But if you could get different characters for the HA Highwind scene like you can for the date, that would have also been included on the FTOIL page. SE lists a reference page above Cloud and Tifa’s image on the FTOIL page so readers can find out that the HA version is not the *only* version, the HA version is simply the only appropriate version of the Highwind scene to include on the FTOIL page. Since Cloud is pictured with both of his love interests in two canon scenes of romance on a page titled, “For The One I Love,” Cloud can love either Aerith or Tifa. In other words, all the other love triangles have been solved *EXCEPT* for Final Fantasy VII because Cloud Strife is the only hero involved in a love triangle pictured with *BOTH* of his romantic love interests.
4. Denzel and Barret are apart of the same family, it’s just that Denzel is not *living* with Barret, which is why Barret does not appear in any of the quotes that talk about Cloud, Tifa, Marlene, and Denzel *living* together. Remember this quote?
“After visiting various locations with Tifa and Barret, Tifa opened the “Seventh Heaven” bar. Before setting off on a journey, Barret left Marlene in Cloud and Tifa’s care, and the three of them began living together.” ~Case of Tifa
It says that the, “three of them [Cloud, Tifa, Marlene]” began *living* together *AFTER* Barret set off on a “journey”. This unequivocally proves that when the words “live”/”living”/”lived” are used to describe Cloud, Tifa, Marlene, and Denzel, it is ONLY excluding Barret because Barret is not TECHNICALLY “living” with them.
5. According to Square Enix’s *relationship charts* found in the FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania, Cloud and Tifa are childhood friends *only* in both the Final Fantasy VII relationship chart and the Advent Children relationship chart. In addition, Cloud and Tifa never have mutual favor arrows, either.
The FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania provides two relationship charts. One for FFVII and one for AC. By including two charts it is meant to compare and contrast relationships in FFVII to relationships in AC. Essentially, having two charts helps highlight the *changes* the relationships have gone through between FFVII and AC. However, Cloud and Tifa’s relationship does not go through any *changes* because they are referred to as “childhood friends” in both charts. However, that is not the case for Cloud and Aerith. The FFVII chart states Cloud is Aerith’s “bodyguard.” Then, for the AC chart, it states Cloud feels a, “sense of guilt” towards Aerith. That’s because Cloud failed to protect Aerith — meaning he failed as her bodyguard. The difference between Cloud and Aerith’s two charts was the perfect way for SE to show us how their relationship changed between FFVII and AC — Cloud failed as her “bodyguard” in FFVII, so he feels a sense of “guilt” towards her in AC. Why did SE not show any changes between Cloud and Tifa’s relationship? Answer: because Cloud and Tifa’s relationship did not change between FFVII and AC.
6. Cloud, Tifa, and Barret create a family together after the HAHW scene. Marlene is Barret’s daughter and invites Cloud into their family. The family formed was not created for romantic reasons or formed from a romantic place like most families are.
Marlene: “I’ll put Cloud in our family too.”
Cloud: “I appreciate that.” ~Revised Case of Tifa
7. The Cloud x Aerith Golden Saucer date is confirmed as canon within the compilation:
“#111: The Planet’s largest amusement park is run by Dio. Cloud and company visit this place many times in their battle. They meet Cait Sith here. A PROMISED date [there is only one promised date in the game] that ends in a magical night. In the city of desire that floats above the sands, the light memory of the two people is asleep even now…Aerith: “I think I must have seen him again, in you… But you’re different. Things are different… No, Cloud… I’m searching for you…” ~Final Fantasy Art Collection
“In Aerith’s case, if you play the game normally,the partner that generally comes will be Aerith.” ~Final Fantasy VII Dismantled
“Oh, Cloud…I enjoyed our date at the Gold Saucer. The view from the gondola that night was really beautiful. I’ll never forget it. I’ll never forget you, Cloud…” ~Aerith, Final Fantasy VII Dismantled, Square Enix
8. Cloud has a separate bed in his private room during Advent Children.
Cloud: “I want to drink alone.”
Hearing that, Tifa lost control and said, “Then drink in your room.” ~Case of Tifa
People often say that because there is a lack of other furniture in Cloud’s room (like a dresser), it somehow invalidates the fact that Cloud has a bed in his room. But how does not having other furniture mean Cloud can’t sleep in that bed? The point is, I find it hard to believe that SE would include a random bed in Cloud’s room just for the hell of it. If Cloud doesn’t sleep there, who does? Until we see Cloud and Tifa sleeping together, it only makes sense that Cloud sleeps in the bed found in his room. This is evidence that a romantic relationship did not begin between Cloud and Tifa after the Highwind scene.
9. “Each carries their own feelings and love for Aerith. In this story, Cloud also carries his undying feeling for Aerith even to this very day…” ~Nomura, Square Enix
When *undying* is applied to a feeling or emotion that someone has, it is eternal and forever. So although you can make the argument that *undying* when applied to a fictional creature doesn’t mean eternal and forever, when the word “eternal” is applied to a human emotion or feeling, it *IS* eternal and forever. Therefore, it does not make sense that Nomura would be referring to Cloud’s guilt as *undying* when the entire point of the movie is to rid Cloud of his guilt.
10. Cloud and Tifa living together in Advent Children does not mean a romantic relationship exists. Remember Cid and Shera in FFVII? Also, remember that Cloud has a separate bed in his private room and that the family formed was formed with Barret and Marlene.
11. “There’s no relationship from FFVII to the Kingdom Hearts stories. I consider them separate stories. But if you play Kingdom Hearts, toward the end, some of the questions about the relationship between Cloud and Aeris in Final Fantasy VII might be answered.” ~Nomura, Square Enix
Nomura specifically says that although the two universes of Kingdom Hearts and FFVII are separate, the Kingdom Hearts universe might help answer questions about the relationship between Cloud and Aerith as it pertains to Final Fantasy VII’s universe. Cloud and Aerith are seen together at the end of Kingdom Hearts similar to other romantic couples.
12. Tifa admits to not knowing if Cloud loves her *AFTER* the HAHW scene.
“Do you love me?”
Cloud opened his eyes. He looked perplexed.
“Hey, Cloud. Do you love Marlene?”
“Yeah. But… sometimes I don’t know how to act around her.” ~Case of Tifa
13. Aerith Gainsborough: “A girl with the blood of the Ancients flowing through her veins who is engraved in Cloud’s heart for the rest of his life” ~DoC Japanese game manual, Square Enix
14. Love beyond death is a common theme in Final Fantasy (Tidus x Yuna, Shuyin x Lenne, Laguna x Raine, Ashe x Rasler, etc.) Plus, in Final Fantasy VII, you have Vincent’s bond with Lucrecia. Vincent can see her and speak with her in DoC, similar to the way Cloud can interact with Aerith in AC/ACC.
15. Tifa’s jealously over Cloud and Aerith’s relationship:
“The thing which she is unable to hide in her irritation towards Cloud is the fact that he isn’t merely dragging the past around, but because that reason might perhaps be related to Aerith.
FFVII: Seeing Cloud and Aerith developing their world together before her eyes, she inadvertently lets slip her peevish feelings.
AC: Upon knowing that Cloud had been residing in Aerith’s church after leaving the place they had been living in together, her expression becomes complex.” ~Tifa’s character profile, 10th Anniversary Ultimania
One of the lines specifically says that Tifa let her “peevish feelings” slip when she saw Cloud and Aerith developing their “own world” together. Why would Tifa be jealous if Aerith was only developing a world of friendship with Cloud? It is clear that Tifa is jealous of the world her “love rival” is forming with Cloud because the world he is forming with Tifa’s “love rival” is romantic, which is exactly why Aerith is considered Tifa’s love rival in the first place. Tifa continues to be jealous of Cloud and Aerith’s “world” during Advent Children, probably because she admits she doesn’t know if Cloud loves her.
16. “Looks good. You are perfect for each other!” “Aerith’s star and Cloud’s star! They show a great future!” — “Poor Tifa!”~Cait Sith, Final Fantasy VII
“After solving the puzzle about Cait Sith’s replaceable body, he tells one last fortune of Cloud and Aerith’s affinity. Cait Sith’s lines, which seem to expect Cloud and Aerith’s wedding, now makes it more painful.” ~Final Fantasy VII Dismantled, Square Enix
The argument about Cait Sith’s prediction should not revolve around how reliable he is. The argument should be about what was SE’s intent for including this wedding prediction in the game. SE could have had Aerith ask Cait Sith about her future and Cait Sith could have said, “You will have a bright future full of many happy times!” — this would have set the player up to get their heart broken when she was killed by Sephiroth. Instead, they specifically decided to include a prediction about Aerith’s romantic future with Cloud. It was a romantic prediction about her future with Cloud, not just a generic prediction about her future. So given the context of the game and how things were progressing between Cloud and Aerith, it is obvious why SE included this wedding prediction — so the gamer would have the idea in their head that Cloud and Aerith had the possibility of sharing a romantic future together, which would then be destroyed by the hands of the evil Sephiroth. A generic prediction about Aerith’s future would not have been nearly as meaningful or impactful to the gamer, which is why they specifically made the prediction about Aerith’s romantic future with Cloud. The romance that was clearly developing between Cloud and Aerith, in addition to a prediction about a their romantic future together, makes her death all the more sad. SE killed off a romantic love interest to Cloud because it would be more impactful to the gamer. If SE had killed Barret, I can guarantee you that it would not have been as memorable or as impactful to the gamer. One of the biggest reasons Aerith’s death is so sad is because she wasn’t just a friend to Cloud. Aerith had a possible romantic future with Cloud, which is exactly what SE wanted us to think, so that when they killed her, it was that much more painful and heartbreaking for those of us playing the game. Luckily, their love transcends traditional barriers and continues in the spiritual world. Furthermore, SE refers to this prediction as a wedding prediction. Why would they refer to it as a wedding prediction if it was not meant to highlight the romantic connection Cloud and Aerith have in the game?
17. Final Fantasy VII: After Cloud and Aerith share a spiritual connection, Cloud says in the final moments of the game, “An answer from the Planet… the Promised Land… I think I can meet her… there.”
Cloud wants to reunite with Aerith in the Promised Land.
18. “You should have… An older girlfriend, one that would take care of you. I think that would be the perfect type for you.” ~Mrs. Strife (Cloud’s Mom)
I’m looking at this quote from SE’s intent. Obviously Cloud’s Mom saying this means nothing. But what was SE’s intent for including this? Why would they choose for Cloud to have this flashback while he was sleeping in Aerith’s house? Just to provide some context: Cloud had just met Aerith. He agreed to be her bodyguard for the price of one date. He had just spent time laughing with her. Protecting her. Then while Cloud is sleeping in her house, SE decides to throw in this flashback where Cloud’s Mother talks about girlfriends and dating someone older. Then right after this flashback is over, you see Cloud in his room and Aerith in her room. Clearly this was meant to set these two up as romantic love interests.
19. “Marlene is a sharp girl – Even though she’s only 4 years old, Marlene is perceptive and well attuned to the woman mind. The scene where she ascertains that Aerith has favor for Cloud and tells him so, then says “I won’t tell Tifa!” demonstrates this grownup behavior.” ~Final Fantasy VII, 25th Anniversary Ultimania
Therefore, this is the canon version of this scene:
Marlene: “Guess what? Guess what? Aeris was asking me lots of questions. Like what kind of person Cloud is. I bet she likes you, Cloud!”
Cloud: “Let’s hope so.”
Marlene: “I won’t tell Tifa.”
20. “The staff has their own answers to all the scenes in the movie such as the angel statue that makes an appearance many times. But, even if someone who has watched it interprets it differently, then that is just another answer.” ~Nomura, Square Enix
21. “As for Cloud… He sees Aerith several times throughout the film. It’s not that he sees her because he feels her presence. He sees her because her consciousness lives on inside him.” ~Nomura, Square Enix
22. Cloud and Tifa expressing mutual feelings =/= romantic relationship.
Although this is a reasonable assumption, it is *NOT* always the case that expressing mutual feelings means a romantic relationship begins. As we can see, Cloud and Tifa are living in a world of very rare and unique circumstances that I believe prevented them from ever turning their mutual feelings into a romantic relationship.
23. “The place where he awakens. That is Cloud’s Promised Land……” ~Final Fantasy VII 10th Anniversary Ultimania, Square Enix
Cloud says he wants to find Aerith in the Promised Land at the end of FFVII.
Then, during AC, Cloud realizes that Aerith will always be with him, so his Promised Land is wherever Aerith is — which is why it says Cloud’s Promised Land is the place where he awakens (ie: the place where he sees Aerith)
And the reason I connect this quote more to Aerith is because of Cloud’s line at the end of FFVII where he says he thinks he can meet Aerith in the Promised Land.
24. “Both of them share feelings for Cloud — Tifa was close to Aerith, who can also be called a love rival. With that point in mind, they were also good friends. Nevertheless, it is not hard to imagine that she carries complex feelings as a woman toward Aerith, who had built up a special bond with Cloud that was different from Tifa’s. Tifa’s complicated feelings continue even in AC, two years after Aerith had departed the world.” ~Tifa’s profile, FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania, pg. 42-47
25. “I never blamed you. Not once. You came for me. That’s all that matters.” ~Aerith Gainsborough
26. “A story of a love that could never be…” ~Official Square Enix commercial referring to Cloud x Aerith
27. “I, now undoubtedly, love Cloud much more than Zack.” ~Aerith’s monologue in Gongaga, Final Fantasy VII Dismantled, Square Enix
28. Cloud to Aerith in Cosmo Canyon: “But, I’m -I mean- we’re here for you, right?”
29. “Although in the beginning Aerith felt close to Cloud is because he behaves like Zack, her interest in Cloud himself grows and she is attracted to him.” ~page 31, Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega, Square Enix
30. “First off, it bothered me how you looked exactly alike. Two completely different people, but look exactly the same. The way you walk, gesture… I think I must have seen him again, in you… But you’re different. Things are different…” ~Aerith, Final Fantasy VII
31. Cloud agrees to be Aerith’s bodyguard for the price of one date.
32. Cloud visits Aerith’s Church frequently after her death (even before being diagnosed with Geostigma).
When Tifa finds out she says, “Which is it? A memory or us?”
33. In Advent Children, when Sephiroth asks Cloud what he cherishes the most, the first person that comes to his mind is Aerith.
34. Cloud and Aerith share their first of two dates at Green Park in the Sector 6 Slum: “Date in the Park: In Scene 04-10, Zack and Aerith have a date in Green Park in the sector 6 slum. An identical situation is seen in “FFVII” as well, which features a scene of Cloud and Aerith on a date in the same park.” ~CC Ultimania, Square Enix
35. “After the explosion of First Reactor, Cloud met Aerith while running away alone. Cloud left the place, remembering the mysterious feeling he had for Aerith from the small conversation. He then reunited with AVALANCHE safely, and left for their base…” ~Final Fantasy VII Story Playback, Page 111
36. Cloud x Aerith have official SE artwork together, similar to other canon Final Fantasy couples
37. “It was the sound of Cloud’s heart cracking. It was the cry of his heart that could never be healed of the grief he had towards Aerith’s death, the blame towards himself and the hatred he had for Sephiroth…There was nothing she could do about Cloud’s suffering and the pain ached in her heart.” ~Maiden of the Planet, Square Enix
Cloud’s heart broke when Aerith died.
37. “First off, there’s the premise that things won’t go well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without Geostigma or Sephiroth this might be the same…” ~Nojima interview about On the Way to a Smile at the Square-Enix website
38. Final Fantasy VII Advent Children: During the ending credits, Cloud is shown riding his motorcycle through numerous flower fields. Although Cloud is a delivery boy, he is shown riding his motorcycle through flower fields.
Nomura said in the Reunion Files that, “…we filmed the video for the ending credits in Hawaii. There are fields of flowers on both sides of the road, and the colors – yellow and white – are the same as the flowers in Aerith’s church.”
In addition, Nomura states, “With Aerith, ‘flowers’ have been her image throughout the series.”
39. Final Fantasy Dissidia: At the end of Dissidia, Cloud is seen entering a flower field. This flower field is eerily similar to the flower fields Aerith has appeared in, and the flower field shown during the ending credits of Advent Children. Cloud is also holding Aerith’s Holy materia. Before this takes place, it is stated by Zidane that each character is, “…returning to where we’re supposed to be.” Cloud is supposed to be with Aerith, which is why he returns to a flower field. Interestingly, Squall of Final Fantasy VIII is seen leaving when a white feather falls from the sky. This feather represents Rinoa. The parallels between Cloud x Aerith and Squall x Rinoa are obvious. During the game Cloud also says, “The one I really want to meet is…” And although he doesn’t finish his sentence, given the ending scene of Dissidia and the ending of Final Fantasy VII, it is clear who Cloud has a desire to meet in the Promised Land.
40. Final Fantasy IX: The Flower Girl calls Knight VII “cute” and Knight 7 calls the Flower Girl “beautiful”. Their entire conversation is very flirtatious and romantic.
41. “At first when I met Cloud, I believed he was similar to Zack. Little actions, the way he spoke… his kindness. But Cloud is Cloud. I, now undoubtedly, love Cloud much more than Zack.” ~Aerith’s monologue in Gongaga, FFVII Dismantled
42: Final Fantasy Tactics: Cloud meets a Flower Girl. Cloud essentially has the same conversation with this Flower Girl as Cloud has with Aerith during the beginning of Final Fantasy VII.
Please read these similar quotes between FFT and FFVII:
Final Fantasy Tactics:
Cloud: “My fingers are tingling… My eyes…they’re burning.”
Final Fantasy VII:
Cloud: “My fingers are tingling. My mouth is dry. My eyes are burning!”
Final Fantasy Tactics:
Cloud: “I lost…a very important thing…”
Final Fantasy VII:
Cloud lost Aerith in Final Fantasy VII.
Final Fantasy Tactics:
Cloud: “Ever since, I’ve been lost. Who am I? What should I do?
What about this pain…”
Final Fantasy VII:
Cloud:“What about US… what are WE supposed to do?”
Cloud “What about my pain?”
Final Fantasy Tactics:
Cloud “Must go…to the Promised Land.”
Final Fantasy VII:
Cloud: “The Promised Land…I think I can meet her… there.”
43. The hand reach scene between Cloud and Aerith in Advent Children is referred to as a “homage” by SE, which highlights the romantic relationship between Cloud and Aerith that has continued into the spiritual world.
“The ending scene of the battle with Bahamut, the scene where Aerith reaches out her hand, is homage to the last scene from a previous production. It was Tetsuya (Nomura)’s idea….” ~Nojima, Reunion Files
44. Cloud: “Here I met a flower girl. She’s a girl with impressive eyes. She’s around my age, or older by one or two years but the innocent radiance in her eyes simply makes her suddenly look younger. (…) Maybe she’s pleased that the flower was sold, because the worried look on her face had vanished. If this smile costs only one gil, it is a good purchase.” ~Final Fantasy Dismantled
45. Cloud Strife: “The cycle of nature and your stupid plan don’t mean a thing. Aerith is gone. Aerith will no longer talk, no longer laugh, cry…… or get angry…… What about us…… what are WE supposed to do?”
46. “After stopping Hojo from going amuck, the conversation with Tifa before they rush into the Northern Crater diverges into two conditions, according to Tifa’s affection rating with Cloud. When it gets low, the conversation in the scene that they spend the night will be apathetic and ends short. Next morning in the cockpit, Tifa says “Were you listening?” and stamps on tiptoe. On the other hand, when degree gets higher, the conversation of the scene that they spend the night will have strong emotions. Next morning in the cockpit, Tifa will say “Were you watching?” and feels terribly shy” ~page 198, Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega
47. “Deviation – Two versions of the conversation before the final battle. Prior to the final battle, the contents of the conversation between Cloud and Tifa can change depending on the degree of Tifa’s affection. If the degree of affection is high, the contents of the two’s conversation will involve deep subject matter and strong feelings for each other. As well, the sight of the two seen by their companions the next morning will lead to an embarrassing scene for Tifa, and she blushes greatly.” ~page 232, Final Fantasy 20th Anniversary Ultimania
48. “Another event is when the party was dismissed and after everyone left for their own places separately, Cloud and Tifa spent the night together. At that moment, according to Tifa’s affection rating with Cloud, the event of “dialogues exchanged between them from dusk to dawn” and “Tifa’s reaction and lines when she found out that everyone might see (or hear) that circumstance” will be different.” ~FFVII Dismantled, page 201
49. “And having two heroines, Aerith and Tifa, and having the hero waver between them, at the time that was something new.” ~Interview with the creators, pg. 8-13, 10th Anniversary Ultimania
50. SE officially named Cloud and Aerith the Emperor and Empress in Final Fantasy Airborne Brigade.
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32. Cloud visits Aerith’s Church frequently after her death (even before being diagnosed with Geostigma).
When Tifa finds out she says, “Which is it? A memory or us?”
What? Case of Tifa is right here on this site. That isn’t how the conversation goes at all. And the “memory or us line” is from the movie and not about Cloud visiting the church at all……
Cloud not being his complete self during his time with Aerith makes the case for Cloud x Aerith stronger:
I ship Cloud and Aerith because Aerith is the first person in the game Cloud cares for besides himself. In fact, Cloud cares for Aerith despite not fully being himself. This fact doesn’t diminish their relationship, but proves how strong it actually is.
Before I go on, this is an important quote:
“After developing his personality by using Zack’s memory as a base, Cloud still maintained the part of coolness even though Zack had cheerful characteristics. The part of Cloud’s coolness that keeps him away from the surroundings and the part of his asserting “no interests” all have nothing to do with the influence of Jenova cells. They belong to the real Cloud’s personality.” ~Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega
So although Cloud wasn’t completely himself during disc 1, parts of the ‘real’ Cloud were present during his time with Aerith. It is also stated that the Jenova cells inside Cloud mimicked Tifa’s memories of him. Since Tifa’s memories were of the ‘real’ Cloud, Jenova’s cells mimicked portions of the ‘real Cloud’ that fashioned yet another personality for him.
During the beginning of the game Cloud makes it very clear that he doesn’t care about the world, AVALANCHE, or anything but himself. Only with the promise of financial reward does Cloud agree to blow up the mako reactor. Then, after Cloud’s first mission with AVALANCHE, Tifa has to promise Cloud an even larger sum of money to convince him to stay.
However, with the introduction of Aerith, Cloud agrees to be her bodyguard for the mere price of a romantic date. He laughs with her. He takes her home safely, and even has a flashback in her house about having an ‘older’ girlfriend. What could possibly trigger this flashback besides romantic infatuation?
Another quote I’d like to draw attention to is this one:
“At the start of FFVII Cloud posed as a “cool ex-SOLDIER”, and kept up a cocky front. After it is revealed that he was never in SOLDIER, and he begins to act like himself, but he still doesn’t show his emotions very much. The only time he laughs in FFVII is during a conversation with Aerith at the start of the story, when Jenova is still in control of his consciousness.” ~Final Fantsay VII 10th Anniversary Ultimania
This is significant. Aerith was able to evoke laugher from Cloud despite Jenova’s control over his consciousness. It doesn’t make sense that Jenova would make Cloud flirt and laugh with Aerith, and we’ve already established that parts of the ‘real’ Cloud were there during his interaction with Aerith. Therefore, it is very significant that Aerith was the only character that was able to evoke laugher from Cloud. And it’s even more impressive that she was able to do it while Jenova was in control of his consciousness.
Aerith brought out something in Cloud that no one else was able to do. Tifa wasn’t even able to make Cloud laugh when Jenova WASN’T in control of his consciousness. The fact that Aerith was able to make Cloud laugh when Jenova WAS in control of Cloud’s consciousness tells us Aerith could do what no one else could — bring laughter, happiness, and joy to a man who was profoundly messed up.
The emotional connection between them began during their initial encounter when Cloud thought Aerith’s eyes were, “impressive” (1) and that her smile was a, “good purchase” (1). Cloud left this initial encounter with a, “mysterious” feeling (2), a feeling that I believe was love at first sight.
In fact, after all that unfolded during their first two encounters, Cloud tells Marlene that he “hopes” Aerith likes him.
Then, Barret observes how when Cloud wants to save Aerith from the Shinra headquarters, it was the first time he had ever seen Cloud care for someone besides himself (3).
Then, Cloud and Aerith flirt with each other in the Shinra jail cells. This leads to Tifa letting her, “peevish feelings slip” (4) when she witnesses the “world” (4) and “special bond” (5) Cloud and Aerith were forming together that was “different” (5) than the bond she had with Cloud.
Both Barret and Tifa see what should be obvious: Cloud. Likes. Aerith. He likes her a lot. He likes her so much he is willing to risk his life and save her from the Shinra headquarters after only knowing her for a short while (6). Aerith is the first person Cloud cares for besides himself.
In other words, if what we witnessed with our own eyes wasn’t enough, Squaresoft reinforces the obvious romantic attraction between Cloud and Aerith by telling us Tifa let her, “peevish feelings slip” (4) when she observed Cloud and Aerith’s “special bond” (5), and when they had Barret say Aerith was the first person he ever saw Cloud care for besides himself (3).
In a way, Barret’s observation is a clear indication to the gamer that Aerith must be someone very special and important to Cloud because despite how messed up he is, he truly cares for Aerith.
Eventually, Cloud tells Aerith he is there for her in Cosmo Canyon, and a date is shared between them in Golden Saucer. Cloud and Aerith’s time together during disc 1 is a very typical way in which romantic relationships begin — initial attraction based on physical features (check), thinking about relationships/talking about them (check), telling others you like them (check), flirting/spending alone time together/getting to know each other (check), outsiders observing/commenting on the mutual attraction (check), expressing that you are there for the other person (check), going on a date (check).
Then, when Aerith dies, you see Cloud breakdown, cry, and express more emotion than he has all game. Cloud expresses more emotion than any other character when Aerith dies. If his reaction and guilt about Aerith’s death does not prove he truly cares for and loves Aerith (despite not being his complete self when they interacted) I don’t know what does.
Even after Cloud realizes his past and fully becomes himself, he still carries grief, guilt, and sorrow over Aerith’s death. Therefore, if their relationship is somehow null-in-void because Cloud wasn’t completely himself during the time they spent together, why does Cloud (after becoming his complete self) harbor such emotion towards Aerith based on the time they shared while he was ‘messed up’? If Cloud continues to feel strong emotions towards Aerith after fully becoming himself, it means the time they spent together while he was ‘messed up’ is relevant and meaningful to the ‘real’ Cloud.
Aerith was the primary character that was able to bring out the caring side of the ‘real’ Cloud, despite how messed up he was. In other words, Aerith was able to bring the ‘real’ Cloud to the surface and have the ‘real’ Cloud shine through during a time when the ‘real’ Cloud was buried beneath Jenova’s cells and Zack’s memories.
It is silly and downright ridiculous to say that because Cloud wasn’t fully himself during most of his interaction with Aerith that their relationship is somehow insignificant or ‘lesser’. I believe that Cloud not being his complete self makes the case for Cloud x Aerith stronger. It proves that Aerith was the only character that was able to have the ‘real’ Cloud shine through and show us that Cloud not only cares for other people, but that he can, yes, even laugh.
“…there seems to be something between them”. ~Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega, Square Enix
____________________________________
1: “She’s a girl with impressive eyes. She’s around my age, or elder by one or two years. But the innocent radiance in her eyes simply makes her suddenly look younger.
Aerith: “Excuse me, what happened?”
She asked me the question, and then I bought a flower from her, which is rare in Midgar.
Maybe she’s pleased that the flower was sold, because the worried look on her face had vanished. If this smile costs only one gil, it is a good purchase.” ~Final Fantasy Dismantled ____________________________________
2: “After the explosion of First Reactor, Cloud met Aerith while running away alone. Cloud left the place, remembering the mysterious feeling he had for Aerith from the small conversation. He then reunited with AVALANCHE safely, and left for their base…” ~Final Fantasy VII, Story Playback, Page 111
____________________________________
3: Cloud: I didn’t want to start a ruckus till we saved Aerith. I should have known that was impossible though…
Barret: Heh, heh, heh.
Cloud: What is it? You’re givin’ me the willies.
Barret: So there are times when even you fight for other people. I am impressed.
Cloud: Who cares if you’re impressed…?
____________________________________
4: “Seeing Cloud and Aerith developing their world together before her eyes, she inadvertently lets slip her peevish feelings.” ~Final Fantasy 10th Anniversary Ultimania
____________________________________
5: “Both of them share feelings for Cloud — Tifa was close to Aerith, who can also be called a love rival. With that point in mind, they were also good friends. Nevertheless, it is not hard to imagine that she carries complex feelings as a woman toward Aerith, who had built up a special bond with Cloud that was different from Tifa’s. Tifa’s complicated feelings continue even in AC, two years after Aerith had departed the world.” ~Final Fantasy 10th Anniversary Ultimania
____________________________________
6: “Cloud: And then, Aerith got kidnapped.
In exchange for Marlene’s safety, she was taken away by the Turks.
If only she was not involved in this battle between me and Shinra…..
Aerith’s mother told us that she’s a foster child. And because she’s the last survival of “the Ancents,” Shinra was after her since she was little.
So far, it seemed the Turks had never tried to forcibly take her away in violent manner. They just persistently asked for her cooperation.
But, Shinra was entirely impetuous this time.
If Shinra changed the strategy all of a sudden, then no one can guarantee her safety.
I need to get in Shinra building.
I need to rescue her……by all means!” ~Final Fantasy Dismantled
blah blah blah blah. thats all on the 1st disc, so that doesnt mean a thing. AERITH IS DEAD. GET OVER YOUR SILLY NONEXISTENT CLERITH.
Aerith is dead and blah blah blah… What does that mean?? Seriously we are talking about a game called final FANTASY!! It’s a fantasy game and also love beyond death is something common in final fantasy games!! Furthermore Nomura himself stated that cloud sees aerith not beacuse he feels her presence but because her consciousness lives within him. That means that aerith lives inside cloud so they can still be together. Also in the end of “calling” video cloud’s desk is full of flowers and pictures of the field hes was riding before. That means that he found a way of being with aerith even though she’s dead. So please accept the fact that there is another option except from the one you believe. I respect clotis because they have many reasons to support their pair but so does cleriths. So please respect a reasonable opinion…
Omg guys there is no canon couple!!! The are two versions of the highwind scene and it depends on the affection level that tifa has on cloud. So it’s also up to the player to deside which means it’s not canon. That’s what the image wants to show. That final fantasy vii has no canon couple cause it’s up to the player. Thank you
the high version is canon. S/E said so. therefore, cloud screwed tifa all night. and she didnt mind a bit : D
Well when did they say that the high version is canon? Please send me a link
i thought Ryushikaze was a clerith lol!
well, nothing more to say about this.
Well if anyone truly believes that this article ‘proves’ that CloudXTifa is canon seems pathetic to me. First of all the highwind scene has two versions and each version depends on the affection lvl tifa has on cloud. In BOTH versions Cloud and Tifa’s feelings match. But here there’s a difference my friends. In the low affection scene they share feelings of friendship and in the high affection scene they share feelings of love. Since this quote does not make clear which version of the higwind scene is canon then it is considered as a player control scene and that means it’s not canon. So this quote says that cloud and tifa can share either romantic or friendly feelings(HELLO??? We already knew that). Of course the writer of the article does not mention that just because he’s a cloti fan. Seriously guys if SE wanted FFVII to have one canon couple they would reveal it from the first time not 13 years later. Also i would like to say something about the “sex” scene. To confirm with someone that your feelings match without using words doesn’t mean sex. A look, a gentle touch, a kiss and many more things can occur except from words. Anyway Nomura though that sex is too extreme so he would never put it in a FF game
“So this quote says that cloud and tifa can share either romantic or friendly feelings”
It does? On the “for the one I love page”? Maybe the pathetic one is someone who has to make up all this extra meaning so what the page “really says” just so happens to be diffrent from what it actually says.
Well FTOIL page shows all FF couples. So having Cloud in two pictures with both heroines means that he can love BOTH of them. The only thing that this picture shows is that BOTH Cloti and Clerith ARE optional. When i said about the mutual feelings that Cloud and Tifa share i wasn’t referring ONLY to this article but generally to the HW scene to prove that this picture does NOT make Cloti canon and does NOT mean that they had sex…
Ok I’m a clerith myself but you know the difference? When CloudXAerith’s Golden Saucer date was confirmed as canon within the compilation NO ONE made Clerith canon because we know that the scene is optional. But now that SE released and CloudXTifa OPTIONAL scene Cloti’s claim that their couple is canon. Seriously guys…
To fully complete my statement see cloudXtifa HW picture. On the top and right of the picture there is the number 232. If you go to page 232 of the ultimania it says this:
Deviation
Two versions of the conversation before the final battle
Prior to the final battle, the contents of the conversation between Cloud and Tifa can change depending on the degree of Tifa’s affection. If the
degree of affection is high, the contents of the two’s conversation will involve deep subject matter and strong feelings for each other. As well, the sight of
the two seen by their companions the next morning will lead to an embarrassing scene for Tifa, and she blushes greatly.” ~page 232, Final Fantasy 20th
Anniversary Ultimania
Guys get over it. Cloti is NOT canon. I’m not saying that it will never be but for now it is not 🙂
“Ok I’m a clerith myself”
Someone call Ripley’s.
“When CloudXAerith’s Golden Saucer date was confirmed as canon within the compilation NO ONE made Clerith canon because we know that the scene is optional. But now that SE released and CloudXTifa OPTIONAL scene Cloti’s claim that their couple is canon. Seriously guys…”
So when was the C/A date confirmed as canon? None of them are important enough to the plot to warrant making any canon. Why not just say Cloud went on the date with Aerith here if it was so important? Instead it’s lumped in with Tifa, Yuffie and….Barret.
And I figured “cleriths” were to busy telling everyone how the American commercial from 1997 and KH made Clerith canon to gush even more about the date in which Cloud was clueless?
And “cloti’s” say that C/T is canon because it is. You don’t need an ultimania to tell you that C/T reveal their feelings for each other in the LS, confirm them under the HW and begin to live together after the game build a home and adopt children. But SE tells us anyways.
“To fully complete my statement see cloudXtifa HW picture. On the top and right of the picture there is the number 232. If you go to page 232 of the ultimania it says this:”
Again picture. But also a number!
You see you are not supposed to take what they page says at face value. You need to look at the pictures. Then follow numbers to a different page AND ignore the story summery where it describes the same scene shown/described on the FTOIL page AND THEN look at the box to the side that say “deviation” AND THAT tells you what you were really supposed to take from the FTOIL page.
IT’S JUST THAT SIMPLE.
“Well FTOIL page shows all FF couples.”
It doesn’t.
“So having Cloud in two pictures with both heroines means that he can love BOTH of them.”
It doesn’t.
“The only thing that this picture shows is that BOTH Cloti and Clerith ARE optional.”
It doesn’t.
“When i said about the mutual feelings that Cloud and Tifa share i wasn’t referring ONLY to this article but generally to the HW scene to prove that this picture does NOT make Cloti canon and does NOT mean that they had sex…”
Why is it just the pictures shown? Does what the page actually say not mean anything to you? Or is it that what they page actually tells us is completely different than what you are telling us?
I can’t describe how wrong you are. First of all C/A Golden Saucer date is the only date that is reffered many times within the compilation and it is also reffered that normally the character tha shows upis aerith just because of the agreement they made in the beggining. Also Cloud and Tifa never started a family on their own. It was Barret’s idea to create a “family” of friends to help eachother. You Clotis seem to forget that Barret is also a part of the family. Just because he is gone during AC/ACC it doesn’t mean that he’s not a part of the family. Furthermore is DOC Barret has returned. Also Cloud and Tifa never adopted children on their own. Tifa is taking care of Marlene(Barret’s adopted daughter) during his absence and Cloud brought Denzel home without asking Tifa because he thought Aerith brought him. To make a conclusion FTOIL page is a page that shows romantic couples. Yes Cloud and Tifa ARE a romantic couple but only if you play the game a certain way. This does not canonize the couple. If you really believe that an OPTIONAL scene settles the LTD then you are welcome tobelieve that :). I’m not hating on Cloti. I respect their opinions but you must also respect Clerith opinions too.
Let me tell you the same thing that you said about the date. It us up to the player whether something intense happens under the Highwind, or not. Depending on your let’s say affection score with Tifa (which determines who do you go to the date with) determines the phrase she says after the night. It’s either were you listening or were you looking. I could go on and on with proof against this theory but you CloTis are just too arrogant to see farther than your own beliefs.
– “Let me tell you the same thing that you said about the date. It us up to the player whether something intense happens under the Highwind, or not.”
Funny. That’s not what the FTOIL page is telling us. Curious that this supposedly vital piece of information was left out.
– “I could go on and on with proof against this theory but you CloTis are just too arrogant to see farther than your own beliefs.”
“Cloti” is not a belief system you lunatic. But people like you make “what is dead may never die” (clerith) seem like it is.
Here is the description of the “For the One I Love” [FTOIL] page Cloti’s keep conveniently forgetting:
“Through the long journeys, the love of the protagonists develop. Occasionally they become separated, but the two’s value to one another gives them the great strength to overcome whatever crisis may come.”
Lines to remember:
“…the love of the protagonists develop.”
“…the two’s value to one another…”
The FTOIL page can only be applied to the date that happens in canon –the date that is also pictured on the FTOIL page– the Cloud x Aerith date.
Therefore, Cloud and Aerith’s **canon** Gold Saucer date is an example of:
“…the love of the protagonists…”
“…the two’s value to one another.”
Some grasp at straws by attempting to say the ‘protagonist’ in question is *only* Aerith, but that can’t be because of the line that follows, “…the two’s value to one another”.
Unfortunately for Cloti’s, the high affection Highwind scene has never been stated to be the ‘normal’ outcome. On the contrary, the Cloud x Aerith date has been stated to be the ‘normal’ outcome.
~~~~Cloud x Aerith has also been deemed canon in a variety of ways~~~~
“Cloud Strife:
Here I met a Flower Girl.
**She’s a girl with impressive eyes**.
She’s around my age, or elder by one or two years.
But the innocent radiance in her eyes simply makes her suddenly look younger.
Aerith Gainsborough: ”Excuse me, what happened?”
She asked me the question, and then I bought a flower from her, which is rare in Midgar.
Maybe she’s pleased that the flower was sold, because the worried look on her face had vanished.
**If this smile costs only one gil, it is a good purchase**.”
—Final Fantasy VII Dismantled; Square Enix
Shortly after this, Cloud agrees to become Aerith’s bodyguard for the price of a romantic date. This is the typical beginning of a love story: love at first sight and the hero protecting his heroine (in exchange for a romantic date, nonetheless!)
Afterwards, Cloud and Aerith start developing chemistry together, with Cloud laughing for the first and only time in the game with Aerith. She even convinces Cloud to dress up like a girl!
Cloud then canonly tells Marlene that he “hopes” Aerith likes him, showing his romantic attraction to Aerith even further.
“Marlene is a sharp girl – Even though she’s only 4 years old, Marlene is perceptive and well attuned to the woman mind. The scene where she ascertains that Aerith has favor for Cloud and tells him so, then says, “I won’t tell Tifa!” demonstrates this grownup behavior.”
—Final Fantasy VII; 25th Anniversary Ultimania; Square Enix
In order for Marlene to say “I won’t tell Tifa” Cloud is required to say he “hopes” Aerith likes him. Therefore, this is the canon version of this scene:
Marlene: ”Guess what? Guess what? Aeris was asking me lots of questions. Like what kind of person Cloud is. I bet she likes you, Cloud!”
Cloud: “Let’s hope so.”
Marlene: “I won’t tell Tifa.”
After this, Cloud vows to save Aerith from the Shinra headquarters “by all means”.
Once inside, Cloud and Aerith share a romantic exchange. Aerith, very flirtatiously says, “I knew that Cloud would come for me.” Cloud responds with, “Hey, I’m your bodyguard, right?”
Cloud references back to the conversation he and Aerith had in her Church, when Aerith promised Cloud a romantic date in return for his protection.
Aerith picks up on Cloud’s flirtation and responds with, “The deal was for one date, right?”
Cloud and Aerith were very obviously flirting back-and-forth. If Tifa hadn’t been in the jail cell with Cloud, the flirtatious banter between Cloud and Aerith would have most certainly continued. However, because Tifa was in the same room as Cloud, she picks up on this flirtation, which is why she interrupts with, “…………oh, I get it.” The mutual romance in this scene is so obvious, even Tifa can’t deny it.
After this moment in the Shinra headquarters, Cloud subtly lets slip his romantic feelings for Aerith in Cosmo Canyon — a classic romantic slip-up used in numerous literary works.
After Cloud’s romantic confession, Cloud and Aerith share a canon date at Golden Saucer:
1) “In Aerith’s case, if you play the game normally, the partner that generally comes will be Aerith.”
—Final Fantasy VII Dismantled; Square Enix
2) “#111: The Planet’s largest amusement park is run by Dio. Cloud and company visit this place many times in their battle. They meet Cait Sith here. A promised date [there is only one promised date in the game] that ends in a magical night. In the city of desire that floats above the sands, the light memory of the two people is asleep even now…Aerith: “I think I must have seen him again, in you… But you’re different. Things are different… No, Cloud… I’m searching for you…”
—Final Fantasy Art Collection; Square Enix
3) “Oh, Cloud…I enjoyed our date at the Gold Saucer. The view from the gondola that night was really beautiful. I’ll never forget it. I’ll never forget you, Cloud…”
—Aerith, Final Fantasy VII Dismantled, Square Enix
Cloud and Aerith’s canon date is pictured on Square Enix’s “For the One I Love” page:
“Through the long journeys, the love of the protagonists develop. Occasionally they become separated, but the two’s value to one another gives them the great strength to overcome whatever crisis may come.”
—Final Fantasy 20th Anniversary Ultimania; “For the One I Love” page; Square Enix
Lines to remember:
“…the love of the protagonists develop.”
“…the two’s value to one another…”
Only the *canon* Cloud x Aerith date can be applied to the “For the One I Love” page.
Afterwards, Cait Sith gives Cloud and Aerith a romantic wedding prediction:
“Looks good. You are perfect for each other!”
“Aerith’s star and Cloud’s star! They show a great future!” “Poor Tifa!”
—Cait Sith, Final Fantasy VII
“After solving the puzzle about Cait Sith’s replaceable body, he tells one last fortune of Cloud and Aerith’s affinity. Cait Sith’s lines, which seem to expect Cloud and Aerith’s wedding, now makes it more painful.”
—Final Fantasy VII Dismantled, Square Enix
Cait Sith’s wedding prediction becomes “more painful” after Aerith’s death. The only way Aerith’s death would make a wedding prediction “more painful” is if Cloud and Aerith had a mutual romance that would have led to a marriage had she not died.
Despite Aerith’s eventual death, their love transcends traditional boundaries. Cloud associates his Promised Land (his supreme happiness) with Aerith at the end of Final Fantasy VII, and they will one day reunite in the lifestream.
“I think I’m beginning to understand. An answer from the planet…the Promised Land…I think I can meet her… there…”
—Cloud Strife; Final Fantasy VII
JAPANESE: クラウドは女の友人であり、恋人であり
FRENCH: “Cloud avait ete son ami, et son amant.”
ENGLISH: “Cloud was the woman’s friend, and lover”
—Case of Lifestream: White; Square Enix
~~~~Dispelling the MYTH that Cloud and Tifa are in a relationship post-Final Fantasy VII~~~~
Nomura, one of the creators of Final Fantasy VII, states he doesn’t have “any clue” if Cloud and Tifa are in a relationship after Final Fantasy VII ends:
“For example, I was frequently asked if there had been romantic relationship between Tifa and Cloud for two years, after Final Fantasy VII ended, but I don’t have any clue.”
—Nomura; Dorimaga interview; published at Flaregamer; Square Enix
We also know Cloud and Tifa are going through serious problems that prevented them from being in a relationship. Final Fantasy VII creator Nojima speaks of a premise that things “won’t go well” between Cloud and Tifa:
“Episode Tifa” [Case of Tifa] – first off, there’s the premise that things won’t go well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without Geostigma or Sephiroth this might be the same.”
—Nojima; On the Way to a Smile interview; Square Enix
Did you catch that last bit? Even without circumstances such as Geostigma and Sephiroth, things still probably wouldn’t have gone well between Cloud and Tifa. This speaks to the inherent issues that have persisted between Cloud and Tifa since childhood.
Other reasons why I do not accept Cloti:
1. The place Cloud and Tifa reside is home-base for all remaining members of the AVALANCHE family. It isn’t a home they bought together out of love.
2. Typically, romantic couples sleep in the same room. However, we are shown that Cloud has a bed in his private room. Further — Marlene is said to always sleep with Tifa.
3. The Seventh Heaven family was formed with Barret and Barret’s daughter, Marlene. Marlene is the one who invites Cloud into her family, a family that includes Barret. Barret also returns to living with Marlene in Dirge of Cerberus. This is a “family of friends” and has zero romantic connotations.
4. Denzel’s presence has no relevance towards Cloud and Tifa’s relationship because Cloud believes Aerith brought Denzel to him. If anything, Denzel would be considered Cloud and Aerith’s spirit child.
5. The official Advent Children relationship chart lists Cloud and Tifa as “childhood friends” *NOT* ”romantic partners” or “lovers”.
6. Tifa explicitly and directly states that she doesn’t know if Cloud loves her in Case of Tifa. If Tifa doesn’t know if Cloud loves her, Cloti’s shouldn’t pretend they know, either. Tifa also states in the same novel that she doesn’t believe she is a member of a “real” family.
7. Tifa continues to be explicitly jealous of Cloud and Aerith’s relationship in Advent Children. Shouldn’t the supposedly canon high affection Highwind scene be all the confirmation Tifa needs to let her jealousy go? Maybe when Cloud said he wanted to find Aerith in the Promised Land, her jealously started rearing its ugly head again.
And finally…
There is ZERO romantic moments shown between Cloud and Tifa after Final Fantasy VII ends.
Yes, I know it’s normal for all couples to have problems. But it’s also normal to have at least a few moments of romance, too. Where was the honeymoon phase!?
Bottom line is: Cloud and Tifa share zero explicit romantic moments after Final Fantasy VII ends, and they never have a honeymoon phase. Hardly evidence of a romantic “couple”. On the contrary, Cloud and Aerith enjoyed a honeymoon phase during the original game ^.^
~~~~Common criticisms of Cloud x Aerith~~~~
1. Aerith is dead.
Response:
Where is the proof Cloud moved on from loving Aerith? Vincent didn’t move on from loving Lucrecia. Yuna didn’t move on from loving Tidus. And Rose in Titanic never stopped loving Jack.
Furthermore, Dyne, Barret’s former friend, reunites with his wife, Eleanor, in the lifestream. This is stated in Square Enix’s “Maiden of the Planet”. If Dyne can reunite with Eleanor in the lifestream, Cloud can reunite with Aerith in the lifestream.
One of the main themes of Final Fantasy VII is that death isn’t the end of ones journey. Death doesn’t stop love from continuing.
2. Aerith only likes Cloud because of Zack.
Response:
“Although in the beginning Aerith felt close to Cloud because he behaves like Zack, her interest in Cloud himself grows and she is attracted to him.” ~page 31, Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega, Square Enix
“First off, it bothered me how you looked exactly alike. Two completely different people, but look exactly the same. The way you walk, gesture… I think I must have seen him again, in you… But you’re different. Things are different…” ~Aerith, Final Fantasy VII
“I, now undoubtedly, love Cloud much more than Zack.” ~Aerith’s monologue in Gongaga, Final Fantasy VII Dismantled, Square Enix
3. Cloud wasn’t his ‘real’ self when he interacted with Aerith.
Response:
“After developing his personality by using Zack’s memory as a base, Cloud still maintained the part of coolness even though Zack had cheerful characteristics. The part of Cloud’s coolness that keeps him away from the surroundings and the part of his asserting “no interests” all have nothing to do with the influence of Jenova cells. They belong to the real Cloud’s personality.” ~Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega
So although Cloud wasn’t completely himself during disc 1, parts of the ‘real’ Cloud were present during his time with Aerith. It is also stated that the Jenova cells inside Cloud mimicked Tifa’s memories of him. Since Tifa’s memories were of the ‘real’ Cloud, Jenova’s cells mimicked portions of the ‘real Cloud’ and fashioned yet another personality for him.
Further — when Aerith dies, you see Cloud breakdown, cry, and express more emotion than he has all game. Cloud expresses more emotion than any other character when Aerith dies. If his reaction and guilt about Aerith’s death does not prove he truly cares for and loves Aerith (despite not being his complete self when they interacted) I don’t know what does.
Even after Cloud realizes his past and fully becomes himself, he still carries grief, guilt, and sorrow over Aerith’s death. Therefore, if their relationship is somehow null-in-void because Cloud wasn’t completely himself during the time they spent together, why does Cloud (after becoming his complete self) harbor such emotion towards Aerith based on the time they shared while he was messed up? If Cloud continues to feel strong emotions towards Aerith after fully becoming himself, it means the time they spent together while he was ‘messed up’ is relevant and meaningful to the ‘real’ Cloud.
Aerith was the primary character that was able to bring out the caring side of the ‘real’ Cloud, despite how messed up he was. In other words, Aerith was able to bring the ‘real’ Cloud to the surface and have the ‘real’ Cloud shine through during a time when the ‘real’ Cloud was buried beneath Jenova’s cells and Zack’s memories. This is a testament to how much Aerith meant to Cloud.
Cloud wants to find Aerith in his Promised Land (his place of supreme happiness) after he becomes his ‘real’ self. He says so at the end of Final Fantasy VII when he sees Aerith reaching down to him from the lifestream.
Square Enix also says Cloud and Aerith developed a “special bond”. Period.
It is silly and downright ridiculous to say that because Cloud wasn’t fully himself during most of his interaction with Aerith that their relationship is somehow insignificant or ‘lesser’. I believe that Cloud not being his complete self makes the case for Cloud x Aerith stronger — it proves Aerith was the primary character able to have the ‘real’ Cloud shine through and show us that Cloud cares for others.
Cheers!
Nice C/P job BodyguardxFlowerGirl. Let me see if I can counter that will a little C/P of my own.
“Secret date
At the Gold Saucer, Cloud receives an invitation from one of his companions. Who comes around with the invitation is dependent on Cloud’s behavior.”
If you don’t recognize that it’s because in your essay telling us what the FTOIL page tells us about the date it somehow manged to leave out what the FTOIL page actually tells us about the date.
Ever since this article was posted, I’ve noticed how comments have now become fewer and more spread apart over time.
Well, hopefully my comment doesn’t encourage another war of comments (and if it does, forgive me), but I’m just going to quickly give my two cents on this. I thought this article was interesting, but here’s what I have to say about the whole LTD in general:
First off, considering the fact that Square is now officially making the Remake of FFVII (as was revealed at E3 this year) and we should be expecting it’s release in the next some years (it better not take as long as FFXV has taken), we might see some things in it that the original PS1 version didn’t. I say it like that because of some articles I read where Nomura mentions that the Remake won’t be an exact “remake” where only the graphics are polished, but that even some story aspects will be changed as well (to what degree, I don’t know).
Here’s one that I read: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2015-06/23/final-fantasy-vii-remake-different
With that in mind, who knows, sense the creators intend to change some story elements and the fact that both women will be alive in this title, this new game title might give better explanation on what Cloud’s feelings are for both Aerith and Tifa than the what the first game did. For example, I can only imagine how they’ll pull off both the Highwind scene and the date at the Golden Saucer, either Square will change them, keep them the same, or get rid of them. Whatever the Remake brings, I hope it’ll shut up both Clerith and Cloti fans (no offense by the way), and put an end to this debate.
All I’m saying is, I’m looking forward to the Remake, and can’t wait to see what Square will have in store for us!
Hello! I could have sworn I’ve visited your blog before but after looking at many of the articles I realized it’s new to me. Nonetheless, I’m certainly pleased I found it and I’ll be bookmarking it and checking back often!|
You needn’t reveal your password or any private info in order for the Six Weapons hack engine to work.
Magnificent site. A lot of helpful info here.
I’m sending it to some buddies ans also sharing in delicious.
And of course, thank you to your effort!
…I don’t believe this. Nice job Ryu, you almost got me to forsake my clerith
I am a Tifa fan, and personally, I don’t want Cloti. Tifa deserves WAY better than to be second to a corpse. Unless SE wants to write an official explicit declaration of undying love and devotion from Cloud to Tifa, Aerith can keep him. Tifa is better off on her own with the kids than to have that sad sack albatross tied around her neck.
I’d like to bring up several problems with the theory presented on this page. As I see it, the FTOIL page also shows that Clerith is canon and I will explain why in the paragraphs below.
If the FTOIL page does indeed show that Clerith is canon as well as showing that Cloti is canon, then the LTD is NOT over.
1) First the Clerith date scene is shown on the FTOIL page. The Clerith date scene would not be shown on the FTOIL page if it weren’t romantic. It’d be silly to say that all scenes on the FTOIL page are romantic EXCEPT for the Clerith date scene. That’s totally illogical. If the other scenes shown are romantic, then so is the Clerith date scene,
2) This “LTD is Over” article shows the Clerith date scene incorrectly, If you look at the picture of the Clerith date scene shown on this page:
http://thelifestream.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/ltdover3-300×137.jpg
it includes part of the sub-section talking about platonic love on the right hand side. The section on platonic love does not actually include the Clerith date scene. The Clerith date scene is actually included on the FTOIL page with the other romantic couples. That can easily be seen in the following picture:
http://thelifestream.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/ltdover1-196×300.jpg
3) (For #3, please note that ALL of the picture captions under each picture shown on the FTOIL page is talking *specifically* about the scene shown in the picture.) This is important because the picture of the HW scene used on the FTOIL page is NOT showing that Cloud and Tifa had sex as stated in the “LTD is Over” article – and I quote:
“Read that again. ‘without using words, [Cloud] confirms with [Tifa] that their feelings match.’ So, not only can we unequivocally state that these matching feelings are those of love, but that these feelings of love are confirmed without words. In other words, physically. So, yes, there was almost certainly sex under the Highwind that night. I do not wish to bore everyone with a regurgitation of all the related materials, but this does confirm that yes, Cloud and Tifa’s relationship past this point are that of lovers. And that, my friends, settles the Love Triangle.”
Now, the problem with this is that the HW scene picture shows the next morning, NOT the night before when Tifa says “Words aren’t the only thing…” Take a look: http://clerith.heliohost.org/new13.png For anyone who wants to argue that the description is actually talking about the night before and is therefore referring to when Tifa says “Words aren’t the only thing…” please remember that at the very beginning of scene 137 – Last Morning – Cloud says, “It’s almost dawn…” in both the HA and LA vefsions.
http://clerith.heliohost.org/LowAffHWpic11.jpg
If it’s almost dawn, then dawn hasn’t happened yet. If this occurs before dawn, then – technically speaking – it is still night time.
So the description saying that Cloud and Tifa share mutual feelings without words on the night before the final battle is still talking about Scene 137 – Last Morning, not Scene 136 where Tifa says “Words aren’t the only thing….”
4) What is said in #3 is important because the description of Cloud and Tifa sharing mutual feelings without words is actually talking about what happens in Scene 137. If you remember, Scene 137 itself shows Cloud and Tifa sharing mutual feelings without words. Its the following part where Tifa asks to rest her head on Cloud;s shoulder a little longer:
Tifa “Give me a little longer… Just a little bit longer…”
(She rests her head on his shoulder again.)
Tifa “This day will never come again… So let me have this moment…”
That part is the same in both versions. Only the next line showing Cloud’s reaction shows different word usage in the two versions,
Therefore, the description about Cloud and Tifa sharing mutual feelings without words is referring to the sequence where Tifa asks to rest her head on Cloud’s shoulder a little longer, not sex under the Highwind.
Cloud and Tifa sharing mutual feelings without words therefore takes place in both the HA and LA versions. In the HA version, it’s supposed to be interpreted romantically, but in the LA version, it would be interpreted platonically.
5) I do not know Japanese, and no one has translated the dialogue for me yet in this picture:
http://clerith.heliohost.org/new13.png
If I am correct, that is Tifa talking – not Cloud. If indeed that is Tifa talking with her head on Cloud’s shoulder then it;s likely that it;s showing this dialogue:
Tifa “Give me a little longer… Just a little bit longer…”
(She rests her head on his shoulder again.)
Tifa “This day will never come again… So let me have this moment…”
which is the same in both versions of the scene. If the picture is indeed sowing Tifa saying this, then it no longer means that the HA version is canon because both the HA and LA versions are shown on the page.
Furthermore, that is stated on page 232, the page number shown at the top of the HW scene picture which I have bordered in red in the following picture: http://clerith.heliohost.org/new13.png
Page 232 talks about there being two versions of the scene. If the picture is showing Tifa saying a line which exists in both the LA and HA version, then it means that both the HA and LA versions are valid.
6) If you want to argue that the HA version being canon isn’t reliant on the FTOIL page because the HA version is used in all the story summaries, then the same can be said about the Clerith date scene, Again, that makes the Clerith date scene as canon as the Cloti HW scene.
For all these reasons, the Clerith date scene on the FTOIL page not only shows that the Clerith date scene is romantic, but it also shows that the Clerith date scene is every bit as canon as the Cloti HW scene.
If both are canon, then both Cloti and Clerith are canon.
As a result, the LTD is NOT over.
Actually if they’re both canon, then the LTD is over, it’s just the answer is they’re both canon 😛
Hey, Quex –
I had a response all written out for you and then I managed to delete it. >_< So here goes another attempt.
First of all, thanks for answering. I do agree with you that both Clerith and Cloti are shown to be canon by the FTOIL page, but that is NOT what is stated in the "This Just In: The LTD is Over" article by Ryu.
The "This Just In" article instead asserts that ONLY Cloti is declared canon on the FTOIL page, and the "This Just In" article is cited as being the source on a number of articles which declare that Cloti is canon (and not Clerith). If the article itself isn't cited as a source then the information in the article is cited as the reason for Cloti being the "official" and/or "canon" pairing of the FFVII LTD. Here's some examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irOHiRpoLbo
Cloti is declared canon using information presented in the "This Just In" article. Clerith is argued against in the video while Cloti is declared canon. Since the information used as "proof" is the same as the "This Just In" article, it's safe to assume that the "This Just In" article was the source for that information.;
http://www.cavesofnarshe.com/news/article/ff-viis-love-triangle-no-longer-debatable/
Cloti is declared canon and the "This Just In" article is cited as a source. The article says nothing about Clerith being canon.
http://www.gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php?t=18109171
Cloti is declared canon and the "This Just In" article is cited as a source; Nothing is said about Clerith being canon.
http://dissidiaforums.com/archive/index.php/t-3444.html
Cloti is declared official and canon and the "This Just In" article is cited as the source. The implication is that Cloti "won" and Clerith is no longer valid.
http://www.arlongpark.net/showthread.php?t=26085
Same story – Cloti is declared the official couple and the "This Just In" article is cited as the source, Nothing is said about Clerith being canon, too.
Need I go on? The predominant reaction to the "This Just In: The LTD is Over" article is that Cloti is canon – Clerith is not.
============
Besides this, many of the above articles claim that Cloud and Tifa had sex under the Highwind and that the FTOIL page makes that clear. This is based on the assumption that the description of Cloud and Tifa sharing mutual feelings happens in Scene 136 (Understanding) in which Tifa says "Words aren't the only thing…." The picture on the FTOIL page is actually of Scene 137 (Last Morning) where the mutual feelings without words actually takes place when Tifa asks Cloud to let her rest her head on his shoulder for a little longer. So the "mutual feelings without words" phrase CANNOT confirm that Cloud and Tifa had sex.
=============
Third – Yes Tres declared that Clerith is canon because of its presence on the FTOIL page, which agrees with what I stated in my post. He said that here:
http://thelifestream.net/lifestream-projects/site-news/29438/this-just-in-an-apology-to-clerith-fans/
However, that post from Tres Dias (aka Squall of Seed) wasn't nearly as well publicized as the "This Just In" article; As a result, many people are unaware that Tres made that statement.
===============
Fourth – At the link above, Tres acknowledges that Clerith is canon, too, because of its presence on the FTOIL page; However, he goes on to say this:
" my opinions about this material shifted in line with the fact that since the LTD is about who Cloud loves and not merely who he has expressed love for, this material does not discount the legitimacy of the CloudxAerith (Clerith) pairing. As those who have read my latest LTD article, “Dilly Dally, Shilly Shally” will be aware, the canon material makes it more than clear that Cloud’s affections lie with both women, regardless of certain unfortunate circumstances that meant he could only express his feelings to and be with one of them."
While he does affirm the legitimacy of the Clerith pairing, I disagree with his analysis of Cloud loving both women, but only having the opportunity to express his love to Tifa.
I see it differently. While I do think that both Clerith and Cloti are possible as well as valid interpretations of the FFVII Compilation, I do not think that Cloud necessarily has to love BOTH women. The FTOIL page verifies that both the Date scene and the HW scene are optional to the player. The optionality of the HW scene is definitely stated on page 232 of the 20th Anniversary Ultimania, but that page is referenced on the FTOIL page.
Also, as I said before, the picture of the HW scene is from Scene 137 (Last Morning) and I believe the picture is of Tifa saying, "just a little longer" when she asks Cloud to let her rest her head on his shoulder a little longer; After that, Cloud states the meaning of that moment when he says that they have each other to turn to and that they don't have to go on alone.
If that is indeed the picture used, then the FTOIL page is showing both the LA and the HA versions of the scene because the two versions are the same when Tifa says that to Cloud.
In that case, both the Clerith description and the Cloti picture (as well as reference to page 232) confirm that it is optional to the player.
As a result, there is no "correct" answer to the Love Triangle; It was left up to player interpretation. This viewpoint is explained fully in the following article by you and me:
http://clerith.heliohost.org/LT%20Revisited.htm
Well let’s see.
1- If we were meant to take that as “the clerith date” and not just a representation of all dates then the caption under that picture would have stated it represents just the Aerith date.
2- So even though the caption is translated, because the screen shot has other parts of the page on it (that I’m sure 95% of the people who see it can’t read) that it somehow implies a conspiracy to delegitimize the “clerith date picture”?
Let’s take 3,4 & 5 as a group – The caption states that this mutual romantic conformation happened “without words”. Which you say is specifically about the scene after they spend the night together. WHERE THEY IN FACT EXCHANGE WORDS. You then show us the night before where they also exchanged words. Makes sense that this without words moment occurred in the fade to black between these two conversations. It would be kind of hard to show a picture of a fade to black where this mutual romantic moment without words happened.
So instead of trying to parse the Highwind scene into different sections why don’t we just take a picture of the HW scene to represent the HW scene?
6 – One could say if the “clerith date” was canon then the caption would have mentioned that fact on the FTOIL page. One could also point out that the date scene is not important enough to the story to place the emphasis on it that the HAHW scene does. And before you say it does. Don’t lie, it doesn’t.
Just realized I didn’t hit reply, so you probably didn’t get notified that I had answered. You;ll find mg reply below.