[Administrative note: For more recent articles with further research and additional perspectives on the subject of the FFVII Love Triangle Debate, please see the following:
—“This just in: A private apology to Clerith fans (in public),” by Squall_of_SeeD (posted as a retraction to and apology for elements of “This just in: The Love Triangle Debate- over”)
—”Dilly Dally, Shilly Shally — An LTD Analysis,” by Squall_of_SeeD
—Reflections on the LTD, by June]
Final Fantasy Seven’s love triangle debate has been raging for the better part of twelve years now, and caused no end of interfandom tensions. For those of you unfamiliar with the whole debacle, I first congratulate you on your luck in remaining free, and I next explain that it is the debate over which of Tifa or Aerith Cloud Strife loves. Many a year, and countless hypotheses have been spent trying to argue that Cloud and Tifa are not a couple despite all the best evidence, and that Cloud and Aerith have a relationship despite the latter’s unfortunate condition. For some time, the love triangle debate has been in what could aptly be described as its death throes. Today, hopefully, we can perform a mercy killing.
Just this morning, our translator Tres dias, who is translating the FFVIII keywords and character profiles, who co-wrote the Dissidia FAQ with Mako Eyes, and who has written a comprehensive FAQ on this subject, received the Final Fantasy 20th Anniversary Ultimania Scenario in the mail. He wanted me to be the one to make this post, and it is my honor to now provide you with his scans, and translations, of page 394 of the guidebook, on ‘For the one I love.’
The header to this section reads
Of direct interest to we fans of Final Fantasy Seven, however, are two images and their associated text, which we have provided, zoomed in on, so those playing at home can check our work.
First, is a picture discussing the Gold Saucer date. The text describing it reads
Secret date
At the Gold Saucer, Cloud receives an invitation from one of his companions. Who comes around with the invitation is dependent on Cloud’s behavior.
Nothing so amazing, no, all it tells us is that the date itself is up to player control, so no one version is ‘official,’ but the next section is not only what hopefully will make for a swift end to the LTD, but also confirms a scenario I have been arguing in favor of for quite a number of years.
As you can see, the image is of Cloud and Tifa’s night under the Highwind. That on a page entitled ‘for the one I love’ is very conclusive in its own right. The text, however, takes it a step further, and reads
The night before the final battle
Thanks to Tifa, Cloud regains himself, and before the final battle with Sephiroth, without using words, he confirms with her that their feelings match.
Read that again. ‘without using words, [Cloud] confirms with [Tifa] that their feelings match.’ So, not only can we unequivocally state that these matching feelings are those of love, but that these feelings of love are confirmed without words. In other words, physically. So, yes, there was almost certainly sex under the Highwind that night. I do not wish to bore everyone with a regurgitation of all the related materials, but this does confirm that yes, Cloud and Tifa’s relationship past this point are that of lovers. And that, my friends, settles the Love Triangle. Even if you don’t want to believe it.
Also of note is that this page shows all the other ‘canon’ couples in the main parties, Ingus and Sara, Cecil and Rosa, Locke and Celes, Squall and Rinoa, Steiner and Beatrix, Zidane and Garnet, and Tidus and Yuna in their moments of revelation. So Cloud and Tifa are certainly in good company, hugging together underneath the Highwind along all the other canon couples of Final Fantasy.
One last thing, before I go. I have one thought, from Tres himself, that he asked me to relate to everyone. That thought is, “All that’s left to say is: Abandon ‘ship!” Wise words indeed, since that ship has been undeniably sunk, if you’ll pardon the pun, by canon.
UPDATE: If you wish to see the translation of the page as a whole, please follow this link to Tres’s translations of what the rest of this page says about revelation of romantic feelings in other games, and what the box in the lower right says about displays of non-romantic feelings.
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tifa and cloud aerith and zack………..
I LIKE CLOTIS,HAHA…..SORRY FOR THE
CLERITH.
HAY SALAMAT NAMAN MAY DUMINGIN DIN SA PANALANGIN KO, TIFA AND CLOUD…………….THANK GOD……
okay. whatever.
PARA SA ‘KIN HINDI MAGIGING OVER ITONG DEBATE!!!! LET’S FACE IT, ITS MORE EXCITING WHEN IT ISN’T OVER.
WOOOO! Amazing article! This seriously made my day. 🙂 I knew that Cloud has always love Tifa. It’s just that my hopes gets crushed whenever a Clerith fan deny it. But i never ever did give up on being a Cloti fan. 😀 This article proves every single thing that had been questioned through these [more than] 10 years. CLOTI FTW! 🙂
lonelygirl..
ahhahaha, your funny….. tsk tsk tsk…
But…Nomura says that Tifa was ADDED into the game at the last minute….the game was originally supposed to be about only 3 characters: Cloud, Barret, AND AERITH…they wanted Tifa, because they wanted one person to know Cloud’s past. here, check this out——->>>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBvh4QRIlRw
notice at 0:13—yea the HUGE WORD, “LOVE” right next to cloud and AERITH right next to eachother..
Yunn, put bluntly, nothing you said was correct.
Tifa was not added at the last minute. She was the fifth major character- before Cait Sith and Cid, to be made. The game was never ‘only about’ three characters, those were just the original three party members.
She was not made ‘to have one person to know Cloud’s past’ though while we’re on the subject of roles, she was given the character Aerith had had until that point. The design of Aerith got a new character, as it were.
Commercials in general, much less commercials not in the language of origin of the advertised, don’t hold much stock. Squall isn’t trying to win the heart of anyone in VIII, for example. Just the opposite, in fact.
Even if it were trustworthy, it neither says whose love it is, and says ‘it can never be’, meaning that if it’s true, and refers to either of those two, it ain’t happening.
By the actual narrative, on the commentary on the actual narrative, Yunn, C/T is realized. C/A is not. Accept this fact, ship C/A as noncanon, and move on.
Wow.
I’ve just finished reading all the posts through January, and I have to say, I am absolutely BAFFLED as to how anyone can deny what is written on the page of a booklet released by Square itself. I will admit that I’m a little biased, being a CloTi fan (although a passive one), but trying to argue down material–facts–straight from the creators is just ABSURD.
Absurdity thy name is Clerith.
(or Cloti)
Stop being dense.
dense?
whatever.
Go ahead and keep on doing whatever you are doing.
Hey, Just sayin’
I can gloat about it now. (I mean..I’ve always been gloating about the things I know about Cloud and Tifa’s relationship, psshaah lawl)
I still dunno about them having sex under the Highwind though… xD laawl
but a FUN article, I enjoyed reading it very much. -giggles-
[I always have a knack at knowing which is CANON and which isn’t. (Since I was a child. Idk how I do that… >_>;;)]
Oh hey look at this site! :’O
→ http://clerith.com/Is%20LT%20Over.htm
It says even though whether it was written in the guidebook about strong feelings, CloTi is still not canon. =’o
So stubborn, aren’t they? xD
Yeah, everything on that site is TRUE!!!!
Moron
Will you leave me alone?!
Will you stop making absurd claims? That site should only be read for comedy purposes. Not as an actual information source.
Yeah. I can make comedy out of your claims too.
yo siempre pense que aerit era solo una mejor amiga de cloud ya que las mayorias de las veces mostraba que se preocupaba por tifa y mas…
que bien :p despues de todo a aerit le gusta zack
naah…..Clearith FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!
Listen to urself……you are basing all this upon the translation “without using any words, they confirmed….watever” ??? U assume they had sex? Comeon!!! i like tifa,but i refuse to believe ur stupid crap story…
CLOUD LOVES AERITH, and THAT’S THAT!!!!
Not at all, my dear semiliterate. That the text says they confirmed the feelings without words merely dovetails with all the other evidence to suggest a physical interaction, and that claim is in itself actually ENTIRELY ancillary to the claim that Cloud was indeed pining for Tifa before, during, and after FF7, and that any romantic notions for Aerith, if any, were as fleeting as their time together and his mental state would indicate.
but,still….i admit that cloud probably ends up wit tifa,coz the stupid square ppl killed Aerith….
Manish, my dear, you seem to have missed, entirely, the point of Aerith’s death, if you think that it was stupid for Square to have killed her off.
In any case, Aerith’s demise is no necessary step for the formation of the C/T conclusion. One merely has to traipse about in Cloud’s innermost mind and note its fixation to Tifa, and the lack of thoughts on Aerith. One merely has to read quote upon quote upon quote speaking of Cloud and Tifa confirming mutual feelings with each other, this one, occuring as it does on the page filled with other examples of people attempting to confess their romantic intent towards other people and declaring that such feelings that both held were confirmed, being one of the most damning, to say the fact that they’ve even said Cloud secretly loved Tifa even before leaving for SOLDIER, with nothing of the sort said of the flowergirl, that is why Cloud will end up with Tifa. Or rather, why he already has. They have formed a family. A troubled one, at times, but one nontheless.
This site is clearly bias. I still believe as ff7 lover that there are no canon pairing for ff7. People need to just accept that and move the hell on
You may cry bias all you like, child, but but the evidence is as plain as day. At this point, saying there is no canon partner for Cloud is merely being contrarian for its own sake, or because one does not want to admit the canon has ruled against one’s favorite pairing.
To sum up- this page is listing examples of romantic confession instances of main party members in the main installments of the series, from FF3 to 10. Cloud and Tifa are in this section, and are stated to confirm the feelings the both hold. This is not rocket science. At all.
It shows Cloud and Aerith as well. But either way this does not prove canon at all. FF7 does not have a canon pairing period, if it did just like the other ff it would have ended showing so. If Cloti were the intended pairing then the date scene and other things wouldn’t have been OPTIONAL.
It’s not about the picture, but the text. The text underneath the picture of Cloud and Aerith’s date merely says that depending on how you act, one of four people will accompany Cloud on a date- it’s emphasizing the optionality of the dating minigame.
The text underneath Cloud and Tifa speaks of confirmation and mutual feelings.
It is decidedly NOT optional, nor is Cloud’s asking Tifa to be by his side in a ‘different’ way than before, them moving in together, forming a family together, their having a future together, her having the role of someone’s beloved, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
The only optional thing about C/T is the date, and that’s before they’re aware of the mutuality of their feelings. Everything else is set in stone, kiddo.
They confirm their feelings…okay that doesn’t mean automatically romantic love. In ac the move in with each other, yet they weren’t a couple. Having a future together doesn’t mean being together as a couple.
And in ff7 the affection level of the highwind scene can be affected by player choices earlier
The heading it is under, dear contrarian child, is ‘for the one I love.’ Every other entry in this heading, including the date sequence, deals with attempted romantic confessions and other romantic things.
To say that Cloud and Tifa don’t follow this pattern when they confirm feelings they both hold, as well as all the other special pleadings you cast forth, is simply aparsimonious and nonsensical.
A rational, parsimonious reading of the evidence, in context, shows Cloud has made his choice to be with Tifa.
Protesting otherwise is simply silly.
If you wish to discuss this further, I suggest you bring it to the forum proper, where such extended discussions are meant to occur.
It doesn’t prove canon and if it did why show Cloud and Aeris date scene? They are not a couple and playing ff7 makes that obvious. Its players choice
Because it’s one of the four dates you can get, like the text says. And yes, child, they are a couple. They become a couple at the very end of the game, in the scene where they confirm the feelings they both are holding. Feelings of desire, feelings worth inclusion on the ‘for the one I love’ heading, feeling which have been mentioned as confirmed eight times, including here, the U10, the U0, Cloud and Tifa’s shared keyword from the CCU, etc.
I’m noting a distinct lack of argumentation and evidence from you, child. Merely assertion, and assertion does not make the asserted so.
Now please, take this to the forum. This the second time you’ve been asked.
Remind me again. What does this page say about Cloud and Aerith?
My god Ryu, you’re like in your 20s aren’t you? seriously grow the fuck up. It’s a bunch of goddamn pixels and you still argue over them? You are honestly one pathetic human being. Please go out and find yourself a life outside of some FFVII internet forum, get a job and get some pussy. Cloud and Tifa aren’t all there is to life.
Whats the matter? Did Ryu hurt your feelings?
Look we are all sorry your precious ship is now officially and irreversibly sunk. But it is. So can we all just enjoy the compilation of FFVII for what it is and not what shippers want it to be?
lol Who said I shipped Cloud and Aeris? Ryu didn’t hurt my feelings in any way, shape or form. I just find it extremely sad and pathetic that a 20-something year old man debates a bunch of pixels the way he does. lol You see there Vendel, not everybody clings onto pixels and pairing shippings like their life depends on it! Is that a shock to your fragile little mind? It must be considering the first thing you said to me that my ship has sunk, which I don’t ship either pairing tbh. I mean the guy totally acts like they’re real people with real flesh and blood and real feelings. They’re not. They-are-computer-generated-pixels. They do not exist.
Nor do the vast majority of things people find entertainment in these days.
Care about a movie, OMG get a life.
Now then, Ms. Bitch, can I ask why you began by attacking me, personally? I’ve always found the straight jab for the personal attack is really only engaged in by people with prior histories with me, or the truly sad and desperate. While I would not presume the latter, you seem to explicitly deny the former.
And really, Ms. Bitch, fake emails? Do you truly think we are so petty as to strike back with infantile reprisals? Or does the extra layer of anonymity simply make you feel more embolden to libel others? I mean, you call me pathetic for being above 20 and still discussing the contents of a fictional work I enjoy. You, on the other hand, are making personal attacks of a man you say you do not know, over a subject you say you do not care much about.
And I am supposed to be the pathetic one?
I’ve always felt that…….it was always Tifa it just…..was
The book only say that Cloud confirms that their (his and Tifa’s) feelings are the same. The author didn’t state exactly what ‘feelings’ they are talking about.
I’m a Cloti fan, but I don’t think there is sex under the airship at that scene XD
It’s Cloud and Tifa here what we’re talking about. I always thought that their relationship would be mostly emotional than physical.
The context of this scene is where everyone in their party took a break to visit their family and loved ones. Cloud and Tifa has no one, all their families are gone. They can’t even visit their hometown because now it’s just a fake imitation made by ShinRa. But although have no families anymore, they still have each other. So they sort of regard each other as a family now. XD This scene is the foundation of what we have in Advent Children. Cloud and Tifa as a family.
Whether their feelings are romantic or not, it depends wholly to the readers/players/watchers’ perspective. Personally, as a loyal CloTi fans, I’d like to think they are at least a little romantic. But any Clerith fans can also claim that what they have is just siblings/family love. Any CloTi fans can also claim that Aerith never knew ‘the real Cloud’ for their ‘relationship’ to be canon. It’s all about interpretation, and I think the developer really wants to keep it that way. Which I don’t mind, because it makes them all more interesting.
1. The page is about romantic love. So yes we do know what feelings they confirmed WITHOUT WORDS.
2. One has to wonder why?
3. No this is the foundation of their relationship as lovers. Family comes later.
4. No. This is not ambiguous. Nor open for interpretation. They are telling us flat out Cloud and Tifa become a couple under the Highwind. You and others just have to accept that fact.
I’m going to have to agree with her. Even though they don’t mention about Cloud and Aerith they show the date scene to show that Cloud romantic interest is optional.
Also what this bias site failed to explain is that on a different page it tells us how the Highwind affection scene can be affected based on your affection level for tifa
And the delusion continues.
Also the HW scene is affected by Tifa’s AR for Cloud. Not the other way around.
And it wouldn’t matter if there were a dozen different versions. SE is telling us flat out that Cloud and Tifa confirm feelings of romance without words under the Highwind.
Fucking shippers.
As vendel has mentioned, it is Tifa’s AV for Cloud that chooses the scene, but even then, we are told, point blank, that the confirmation happens, not just on this page, but on seven other occasions. The confirmation happens, period.
This page says the confirmation was of the same romantic nature as Cecil and Rosa’s confessions, Squall and Rinoa’s confessions, etc. etc. etc. This same page also tells us that it can’t be non romantic, by including a distinct and seperate section for examples of Non romantic displays of love in the lower right corner.
So the confirmation happens, and the confirmation is romantic. Now either both versions of the scenes are romantic, or if only one is, only that version is canon.
BTW, Tifa lover, I didn’t even have to check your IP or email address to know that was you under a different name.
Can’t believe that it doesn’t prove enough for Cleris People….
——————————————————–
A wedding and biological children wouldn’t be enough to convince some Cleriths.
You got that right….we are talkig about Clerith/Cleris people afterall….
T he one who don’t even have a single name to decide! [Clerith/Cleris]
[I don’t mean any harm to Cleris/Clerith] Fans…]
I’m just a “Big” Cloud Fan and never found any reason for his relationship with Aerith. I’ve read [Cleris/Clerith] reasons but I found that all of them show us that they actually “want” this relationship…
Duh. that would convince the Cleriths alright. Im waiting for that to finally settle things.
The burden of proof for clerith’s is so absurdly high already that I don’t think it would “solve” matters for them.
That is why they (and you) are delusional shippers.
It will for me.
The debate should be over after Aerith’s death!
I have read in Wiki, that they are not supposed to enter the character of Tifa in FF7, but to include her, they have to eliminate one of the character which is Aerith! So hail that Sephirote because he killed her! ROFL!!!
Ok, once again, Aerith is dead!!!!
The writer already confirm this one! But why does the Clerith fans aren’t move on! Look at the picture, i haven’t feel any sparks here! They are just sitting down, and what’s up with that??? Unlike the photo of CloTi! Tifa is laying his head on cloud’s shoulder. That is soooooooo sweet! (In Wiki, there should be an sketch of Tifa and Cloud having a sex but they think that it is not essential to the story, but for me, they should have include it. ehehehe)
If the ClErith fans will claim that that is not only scene of Cloud and Aerith together, well, why not putting the more romantic scene of clORITH there????????? Huh!!!!!
Aerith has take away the guilt of Cloud in the ending of AC and that’s it! No “i love you goodbye. You will stay on my heart forever! You should have not died, so that we kill Tifa together, and become the parents of Denzel and Marlene” and He should have hurt seeing Zack behind Aerith on the last scene.
The story almost end up Cloud staring to Tifa like saying, “No worries. No monster will attack us after this so we can raise our family together!” Ehehehehe…
oh i receive an email from Cloud, and it tells that TIFA IS PREGNANT!! There is an addition to the family that they have started together! LOL!!
Well I am just dreaming. I am just a CLoTi fan that’s why. 😀 Bye!
No offence, but these Clerith fans are kinda out there… >.>
http://www.clerith.com/Sweetheart.htm
CLOUD AND TIFA FOREVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
uy, kung nababasa nyo ito creo at I am Not Me..salamat! mabuhay ang mga pinoy
YEAH!!! cge. marami rin palang mga pinoy users ng site na to.
NADESHIKO:
based on your name, could it be na mahilig ka rin sa anime na Yamato Nadeshiko Shichi Henge?
*one year later* :B
WASSAP NOYPI
It’s actually “confirmed feelings that could not be put in words”. Which doesn’t really debunk anything, but does affect the impression you get.
But idk why people even argue over this. Cloti fans can believe what they want, Clerith fans can believe what they want.
If the feelings can’t be put into words, then they had to be confirmed without words.
And while your golden mean ‘believe what you want to believe’ may make you feel all warm and fuzzy, it doesn’t mean there’s not a correct answer. If you want the LTD to end, make sure everyone knows there’s an answer, don’t coddle the guys who were wrong.
A bit mean, yes, but necessary.
Because one side typically ignores or automatically assumes what the other side believes in and puts it down.
If it’s not clear, I’m a Clerith fan all the way (well, I don’t dissuade those who believe in ZackxCloud either :)) but I acknowledge that Cloti is the only possibled relationship that could happen on account of the fact Aerith DIED. Most Aerith fans will also say this too.
However, what Clerith fans are arguing is that Tifa doesn’t really deserve Cloud.
Honestly I find him to be a whiny little prick who doesn’t deserve love (so I’m just here arguing just to argue,) but Tifa didn’t even acknowledge that he even existed until he told her he wanted to be a SOLDIER. This was, of course, AFTER they had been neighbors for most of their childhood. Even when she got hurt and her dad blamed Cloud she didn’t even defend him.
Yeah you can argue Aerith shouldn’t have even tried to hook it up with Cloud because she was waiting for Zack, but come on. Four years without seeing your man who happens to also be very flirtatious and you expect her to wait any longer?
And “without using words, he confirms with her that their feelings match.”
From what I understood, they were simply HORNY AS FUCK.
Sex can mean a lot of things, but it doesn’t always mean love.
-Because one side typically ignores or automatically assumes what the other side believes in and puts it down.-
And the other… does not.
-but I acknowledge that Cloti is the only possibled relationship that could happen on account of the fact Aerith DIED. –
Cloud being interested in the other party the entire time doesn’t help either.
-However, what Clerith fans are arguing is that Tifa doesn’t really deserve Cloud. Honestly I find him to be a whiny little prick who doesn’t deserve love (so I’m just here arguing just to argue,) but Tifa didn’t even acknowledge that he even existed until he told her he wanted to be a SOLDIER.-
Incorrect. She was aware of him and thought he was cute, even during his ‘pick fights with the entire village’ phase, during which time he was hardly the most social of people.
-This was, of course, AFTER they had been neighbors for most of their childhood. Even when she got hurt and her dad blamed Cloud she didn’t even defend him.-
She was in a coma when that happened. Ever think her overprotective father never told her? She certainly doesn’t recall the bridge drop.
Incidentally, why are you judging the woman who was willing to devote her life to a VEGETABLE to a girl who was enamoured of the cute boy in town becoming her white knight?
I do note you try and defend Aerith’s falling for the phantom of Zack, but it really is the same as falling for an ideal instead of the reality. Also, Cloud, very flirtatious?
-From what I understood, they were simply HORNY AS FUCK.
Sex can mean a lot of things, but it doesn’t always mean love.-
Simply horny as fuck? Do either Cloud or Tifa seem like the type to JUST do it to you?
Because really, neither their personalities nor the sequence leading up to lovemaking under the stars lends credence to the ‘Just a fuck’ hypothesis, as opposed to the ‘Years worth of frustration and tension’ hypothesis.
If you’d be so kind as to take further discussion to the forum, I would appreciate it.