The Love Triangle of FFVII – An Analysis by Squall_of_SeeD
by Makoeyes987 September 25, 2009 0 comments
Ahh, the Love Triangle of Final Fantasy VII. It is arguably, the most passionately discussed topic of all of FFVII fandom. Going by the comments on this site, at least.
Today, we post the next article from his FAQ, written by Squall_of_SeeD. In this one, he’ll analyze the hot button topic of Cloud’s feelings and affections for the two heroines of FFVII: Aerith and Tifa. What do the creators and story have to say regarding Cloud’s feelings for the two? Anything? Squall_of_SeeD gives us the answer.
With great pleasure, we host this controversial, yet well written and insightful analysis. Enjoy!
EDIT: As expected, Squall_of_SeeD and I have received lot’s of feedback, both positive and negative, regarding this article. Squall_of_SeeD decided that it was necessary to address several of the additional points and critiques of his analysis that were mentioned, and with that, he has amended several portions of his FAQ regarding his analysis. You can read the newly edited article below.
EDIT2: Squall_of_SeeD is such a slave driver making me update this FAQ again, today, the eve of Halloween. But he’s just a stickler for completion. So again. Take a look at what else has been added XD
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Initially, I’d intended for this FAQ to ignore the Love Triangle
Debate like a plague. It succeeded in that for a good number of years, but updating it after an absence of more than three years from this fandom, I feel a need to address this topic.
Why? You know, I’m really not sure. Probably because it’s hard to call the FAQ’s analysis complete when I don’t even talk about what remains the most passionately and frequently debated aspect of the game more than 12 years after its release.
The Love Triangle Debate, of course, centers around whether Cloud had more romantic feelings toward Aerith or Tifa. Basically, who did he want to be with?
Twelve years after the release of Final Fantasy VII, the most passionately and frequently debated aspect of the game remains the Love Triangle Debate.
For those nine of you who don’t know, the Love Triangle Debate centers around whether Cloud had more romantic feelings toward Aerith or Tifa. Basically, who did he want to be with?
Those fans who prefer — or “‘ship”, as the verb goes — CloudxAerith are known in the fandom as Cleriths, while those who ‘ship’ CloudxTifa are called Clotis. That being said, obviously a Clerith may still argue that Cloti is canon, and a Cloti might argue the opposite if it’s what they believe.
Generally speaking though, those in both camps argue in favor of their preferred relationship as canon.
While I’ve had my preference since the beginning, it was initially based on my own preferences in women. More to the point, I couldn’t stand Aerith and adored Tifa. That’s still the case 12 years later, though it obviously doesn’t have to be the same for Cloud.
None of that is to say that I don’t like Aerith; just not in “that way,” if you get me. I simply prefer more somber and restrained females. Still, if you fear my declared preference for Tifa may bias my views in this analysis, that’s not an unreasonable concern.
However, in any public address, it’s necessary to state one’s personal views upfront. Otherwise, it becomes a question of honesty.
Whether I am credible I leave to each of you to decide.
I do believe this, though: You won’t find someone with no opinion on the LTD actually discussing the matter at length. Not only because it takes a vested interest in the first place, but because it’s impossible.
Anyone analyzing data and drawing conclusions from it, even if they began as neutral, no longer is by the end of the process. This is as true of researchers making employ of the scientific method as it is of scholars conducting media analysis.
They must, of course, attempt to distance themselves as much as possible while drawing their conclusions, though. You are free to determine otherwise if not convinced, but I believe my three-and-a-half-year absence from this fandom has given me a degree of distance. I will tell you outright that I could not have objectively discussed this matter in 2005.
I believe I can do so now.
In any case, as said, I am a Cloti. Accommodating me and so many others, the original game’s developers designed it such that the player’s own choices influence who Cloud’s affection is greatest for in the original game.
The way several scenes play out are influenced by this, and, consequently, it left Cloud’s feelings ambiguous at the end of the game. As an additional consequence, it meant players would debate, disagree with and flame one another for more than the next decade since there was no definitive answer.
There were no official declarations in interviews, no scenes in the newer FFVII titles featuring Cloud and one of the ladies in an overtly romantic context, and no apparent end in sight to the blood feud that lay between fans of the two pairings.
The only statement about Cloud’s feelings that could be given with complete confidence is that he cared about both women very much. Now, however, I believe more than that can be done.
I believe there’s now a definitive answer.
The only statement about Cloud’s feelings that could be given with complete confidence is that he cared about both women very much. Now, however, more than that can be done.
There’s now a definitive answer.
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I must say yes your bias is showing
but nice argument.
It struck me deep that Tifa was described as yet another woman whom a man has left behind. Isn’t this the same for Aerith with Zack? Tifa and Aerith are so different yet so similar.
I was wondering if you can compile evidence of Aerith and Tifa’s friendship and present it as an article? Perhaps showing the Love Triangle supporters the sisterly friendship between Tifa and Aerith will cool this brimming war?
Pretty please? 😀
and I think Cloud does deserve to be with Tifa. I’m sure Aerith would want him to be happy anyway.
PLEASEEEE
show Clotis and Cleriths that Aerith and Tifa certainly WERE friends, not hormone pumped teenagers who only longed to win their man
I hate how the fandom starts character wars! It is not needed 🙁
His bias is showing? The man really did go out of his way to be nice to the “clerith pov”. Because they really have nothing. Accepting this fact is not bias. It’s just the way it is.
um okay…
I’m sorry if I offended you
that’s just the way I perceived it is all
although I think it’s great he thought from different POV
^^
And please leave fandom flaming somewhere else…
I would imagine Clerith fans would be hurt
I would not like that.
Actually, Squall listing up “Clerith evidence” finally convinced me that the Clerith side has indeed got good arguments.
I wonder if Cloud loved both women, Tifa and Aerith.
He seems to show so much affection towards her.
No they don’t have “good” arguments. This was SoS being very generous.
about the card scene. Isn’t it the time when Cloud was thinking himself as a EX-SOLDIER, I wonder. That means he was the living clone of Zack (not absolutely but mostly) so…. maybe Caith’s prediction, would be true.
OK, I became CloTi because I love Tifa. She thinks Cloud as the only man ever alive on earth so… yeah, that led me to be a CloTi but I’m not serious about this. Honestly, I want to see her with Reno(LOL) ’cause life with him would be more pleasant than with Cloud, that 100% emo guy. Reno is my fav. man in ff7 while Zack is no2. . I really don’t get it why these beautiful girls are sticking with Cloud. I admit Cloud is so attractive if you see him only once a week, or just in the same class but don’t sit together. However, for me, it would be so hellish if he sits next to me or if he’s my next door. He should glad that Tifa is always thinking him as the one and should says thank you to her everyday because I wonder how many girls would think him a cool boy if they have lived with him for (at least) three months lol beside let aerith with zack because it would be happier than with cloud, that selfish introvert emo. 😛 (just for fun)
Wow! That was a long read. It was very insightful and I didn’t spot a speck of bias and flames at all (that’s how I see it anyway). It was written fairly well. I’m just new to the FFVII world. The first FF game I played is FFXIII and I got interested in FVII because Lightning was based on Cloud’s design. I recently finished FVII and came to see Cloud and Tifa as a couple. I dunno, but I unconsciously leaned towards CloudxTifa and felt like they were just right for each other. Heck, I didn’t even know there was such a heated debate about who Cloud loves, and I was surprised to see how far shippers will go to defend their ship. Sort of reminded me of the Bleach fandom, but I’m not gonna get into that.
But I want to make it clear that I became a CloTi during the events of the game and towards the end, way before I learned of the fandom. Now I’m still waiting for my download of ACC to finish so I could watch it. I wanna see Cloud, Tifa, and the others in full motion.
This is funny.
Aerith + Zack, but still Squall said himself that Aerith loves Cloud and that she doesnt love Zack any longer.
Quite a good analysis, still, I think you did a few parts wrong, maybe you want to correct them later.
What kind of bothered me is that you said that FFVII did not depict a “fairy tale romance”. When we look at other FFs, it always was this way, so I dont think FFVII should be the exception.
I like to see Tifa happy at least, but still, it bothers me that their relationship is so… well, dysfunctional. That they are always that distanced and not try to understand each other better.
Maybe Im just too spoiled with the other “perfect” FF couples.
Good work.
I think it would help SoS more if you’re to point out the points he got wrong. But then, I don’t think this article has been properly beta’ed since I also spot some repetitions and isn’t up to date with some of the latest materials that has something to do with the LTD. You should read SoS’s GameFAQ article then. It’s more organized and complete.
to me the whole LTD is like a soap-opera (an amusing one at that)
oh and btw nice analysis
I think Cloud should just stick with Tifa and Zack and Aerith FOREVER. FOREVER!
This is one good analysis. This is probably the most logical and the least biased (if you can even consider this bias) essay/analysis I’ve read tackling the topic of the LTD.
Kudos to you, SoS. You’ve again made another great FAQ for the FFVII fandom. Just to let you know, I’ve already known you and has been following your essays way back at your active GameFAQ days. Not that you know me. But don’t worry, lad… I’m not an internet stalker. I just happen to appreciate your essays. 😀
You have put much work into this essay, I’m impressed.
However, your argumentation lacks the persuasiveness. In the middle, you basically said: “Clerith can’t be true because this would contradict our CloTi view we already prove.” Well, I wouldn’t say prove because it’s a somewhat porous evidence… well, that shall not be the matter.
I wanted to point out that you are especially wrong in one point.
You said that Barrets line meaning that Cloud and Tifa “are together” was meant in a romantic way. This is, however, highly wrong, because the sentence was translated differently in the official German version.
___________________________
“Marlene habe ich bei Tifa gelassen. Sie ist ihr gegenüber sehr zutraulich.”
“Und Cloud? Ist er auch bei Tifa?”
“Ja. Tifa hat ein Lokal aufgemacht, genau wie damals. Cloud hat ihr eine Weile dabei geholfen, doch jetzt hat er wohl genug mit seiner eigenen Arbeit zu tun. Er hat einen Lieferservice aufgemacht.”
“Cloud und ein Lieferservice?”
“Ich schätze, Tifa hat ihm Feuer unter dem Hintern gemacht.”
“Verstehe. Ach ja, das sogenannte ‘Schwache Geschlecht’ ist am Ende doch immer stärker.”
___________________________
So, basically, it said that Cloud is living at Tifas bar. Also, the aspect of Cid talking about “women wearing the pants (in a relationship)” is absent completely. Therefore, it is highly obvious that SE didn’t intend the line to be as you wished for.
You might also like to know that Aerith calls Cloud a “Geliebter” in the German version; “Geliebter” is the strongest expression of loving someone romantically – there is no word that would describe greater feelings of love.
This doesn’t mean anything about Clouds feelings, but I thought you would like to know if it comes to Zerith points. So, the whole discussion if koibito (koi bito) means romantic love or not is not needed anymore, at least not in this case.
I think it was already discussed that Tifa can also be a sweetheart, too.
Oh so your German translation overrides the Japanese text? And didn’t I see you admit that the German translation of AC wasn’t that good? Is it only good if you think it can be used against C/T?
the german is more closely translated than English.
Man i am a Cloti to the bone(although only after reading this 7 page article did i even LEARN that Cloud x Tifa fans are called Clotis and Cloud x Aerith fans are called Cleriths!!!) but this article DID make me realize Aerith’s importance as Cloud’s Love interest..The way i interpret the whole thing is that Cloud Did love Aerith as well as he did love Tifa, but in the end the one he wanted to PURSUE a ROMANTIC relationship with was Tifa…It is also plausible though that if Aerith hadn’t died then maybe Cloud would end up with her (especially since she was hitting HARD on him throughout the WHOLE game!) But then again if Aerith hadn’t die then we would have been talking about a different kind of game and NOT FFVII. We all loved this game for the way it was presented as a whole so changing something is like changing the game itself … The Verdict? as the article pretty much said , Cloud had feelings for both of them but the one he really fell for was Tifa all the way … Now let’s see how this conclusion will seem if FFVII actually makes it for a remake on PS3 or maybe on PS4?
Well this was a good read (though there are a few places where lines are repeated)!
However, I’m not convinced that Cloud didn’t love Aerith romantically. I’m not contesting that he loves Tifa because I think that he loves her as well.
Honestly I feel like the way Cloud acts and the way that things are portrayed in the game, Case of Tifa and in Advent Children that Aerith is ‘the one that got away’ or more accurately ‘the one that was prematurely killed’.
The reason I feel this way is because Cloud and Tifa’s relationship is very ambiguous. I agree with you that they are in fact in some sort of romantic relationship and that it is somewhat troubled. The reason it is troubled, in opinion is because of Aerith. I don’t think that guilt alone is what plagued Cloud and I disagree with you that Zack and Aerith play the same role. I believe that Aerith’s role is emphasized more though that could be because her death seemed more preventable by Cloud than Zack’s did (though I’ll admit I haven’t played Crisis Core).
I’m not sure if Cloud really loved Aerith as much as he loves Tifa but I do think that he did have some romantic attachment to her that made it harder for him to move on from her death.
Perhaps it was just how soon Aerith died that made Cloud fixate so much. She died before any sort of relationship could be established. I don’t think that his feelings for her just went away when she died. In fact I’m guessing her death probably amplified those feelings because they were mixed with grief and guilt.
Perhaps if she had lived it would have all fallen apart because well they didn’t really know each other that well anyways and a lot of Aerith’s attraction could have been because of the resemblances to Zack.
I guess what I mean is, I find it hard to believe that Cloud only felt guilt about Aerith’s death. I also find it hard to believe that that alone would stall his and Tifa’s relationship so much. I think there were some left over romantic feelings for Aerith involved even if they weren’t as strong as his feelings for Tifa.
I’ve been an avid fan of FF-VII since I purchased it at launch at a tender age back in 1997 (American release, which actually defined the year for me). Incidentally, I’ve seen so much stuff online concerning the story, yet I’ve never heard of this Clerith vs Cloti nonsense (and it really does seem like nonsense to me, because it seems like something that’s really stupid for people to be fighting over). Perhaps I’ve just been out of the loop, but the most controversial thing I’ve seen was whether or not FF-VII was rushed and if Aeris (I’m using the english version of her name because it’s phonically correct; last I checked, while Aerith assumes Japanese pronunciation of “th” with an “s” sound) was meant to be resurrect-able or not.
It seems strange that people would argue so fervently over the cannon pairing of Cloud, Tifa, and Aeris. I loved Aeris, and Tifa too, actually; but the first time I went through the game I ended up with the Aeris date scene and kept Aeris/Tifa in all instances where another member wasn’t required. I think I cried when Aeris died. I know I had nightmares about Aeris’ death. Yet, Tifa was the one who was with Cloud by the end. She’s the one who helped Cloud remember who he really was, and helped piece him back together. She was his childhood friend and eventual lover. She’s the one who stuck beside him even when he was a “frothing vegetable” (a phrase used when Tifa won GAMEFAN magazine’s top video game babe in 1997). Tifa was the one he shared the last night under the Highwind. Tifa was the one who pulled him out at the end. As much as I loved Aeris, she never had the connection quite like Tifa and Cloud did; so it was no surprise to me that the designers (Squaresoft at the time) had them paired up while Aeris was off playing Jesus for the planet.
Squall of Seed’s very detailed analysis was almost overwhelming to go through, and yet very worth it to get a deeper understanding of the characters and what was going on with the designers behind them. Honestly, it’s a little sad that this is the part of his writings that gets so much attention, when it is only a portion of a much larger and wonderful FAQ (I found his FAQ on GameFAQs before here). I can only say THANK YOU Squall of Seed for your contribution to the Final Fantasy VII community. Final Fantasy VII’s story and details are so rich that it can often be difficult to follow everything; especially if you miss something (like the hidden scenes in Nibelheim). This is a piece of a wonderful, larger, resource.
So as someone who has never really given two farts in the wind about CloudxAnybody, again, thank you; and it is a shame that your wonderful work has been subject to this stupid argument (really it’s taken all of 1 day for me to see that the Tifa vs Aerish argument is stupid, especially given the mountain of facts clearly crushing argument over cannon to begin with, even within FF VII game itself). Again, thank you, Squall of Seed. Please, keep up the good work!
OH YEAH! CLOUD AND TIFA TOGETHER FOREVER! MUCH thanks for this analysis, I always thought a hypothesis clertih but always wanted Cloti
It irritated me when I thought I had more love cloud aerith but for … this reading was amazing thank you if you were not I still had insecurities about this topic
I never really liked the Aeris because I felt that she was attracting the cloud = S
Cloud and Tifa, Aeris and Zack this is how things should be xDDDD I’m so glad I found this on the net YAY! Cloti forever
hahaha…i enjoy reading the interpretation made in this article and most especially the comments right after. Thanks to SoS for giving clear answers
Aeris is cute and all, even funny at times but I cannot STAND her wholly. Simply because she kind of acts like a whore in the Original game but they sugar coat her and everyone thinks she’s all innocent because she’s and Ancient. She was always sort of throwing herself at him, not sexually but come on, you get the gist. I mean she gets boned by Zack all those years and then he dies and she basically tries to get Cloud to bone her because “he reminds her of Zack”? Can someone say whore? lmao Basically she just said “I only like you because you are just like my ex.” LOL WUT? She herself even thinks the love triangle is fun and somewhat tries to compete with Tifa at times. (There’s alot of Reading between the lines to notice) I prefer Clotis only because I can picture Tifa and Cloud in a loooooong lasting relationship. They knew each other since they were little. It’s meant. Also Tifa never tried hard for Cloud’s attention, She got it regardless. She never competed and was suuuuper nice to Aeris besides the fact that she was being a total bimbo. Tifa’s love for Cloud is natural. That’s why I preferred her over Aeris. I don’t like that “ohhh I’m the damsel princess who’s an angel but I like to bone my boyfriend’s best friend because I’m the perfect girl that everyone desires as a main heroine” kinda crap. Not my style. lol Sorry Cleris’ But this is the notion I felt from the original game. 😀 As of now there is no Triangle, Aeris is dead. You need a 3rd person for a love triangle. Bahahahahaaaa (Trollololololol) But besides all that MY shipping that I personally love is Ticent. Loooooooooooooooove TifaxVincent. Beautiful, Beautiful shipping. <3
Funny flame war is funny.
Squall of SeeD, Cloud’s “The one I really want to meet is” line is not a reference to his “The Promised Land…I think I (though it should be we) can meet her there” line. They lines have different meanings, and 012 implies the one he really wants to meet is Tifa. In fact, it wouldn’t make sense if it was anyone else.
Great job. Very factual. A lot of information. And no flaming for both ladies. (Thank goodness. I can’t stand that.) This was a pleasant and informative read. I don’t ship either. I just played the games a number of times and love the FFVII series. I always leaned toward Cloud and Tifa being the canon couple ever since I was young and first played the game. To this day, I feel the same way. I never saw Aerith as a love interest. I just didn’t view her that way. An important and very likable character Aerith is, but not the love interest. Anyway, amazing job. 🙂