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This just in: The Love Triangle Debate- over

by January 22, 2010 811 comments

[Administrative note: For more recent articles with further research and additional perspectives on the subject of the FFVII Love Triangle Debate, please see the following:

“This just in: A private apology to Clerith fans (in public),” by Squall_of_SeeD (posted as a retraction to and apology for elements of “This just in: The Love Triangle Debate- over”)
—”Dilly Dally, Shilly Shally — An LTD Analysis,” by Squall_of_SeeD
Reflections on the LTD, by June]

Final Fantasy Seven’s love triangle debate has been raging for the better part of twelve years now, and caused no end of interfandom tensions. For those of you unfamiliar with the whole debacle, I first congratulate you on your luck in remaining free, and I next explain that it is the debate over which of Tifa or Aerith Cloud Strife loves. Many a year, and countless hypotheses have been spent trying to argue that Cloud and Tifa are not a couple despite all the best evidence, and that Cloud and Aerith have a relationship despite the latter’s unfortunate condition. For some time, the love triangle debate has been in what could aptly be described as its death throes. Today, hopefully, we can perform a mercy killing.

Just this morning, our translator Tres dias, who is translating the FFVIII keywords and character profiles, who co-wrote the Dissidia FAQ with Mako Eyes, and who has written a comprehensive FAQ on this subject, received the Final Fantasy 20th Anniversary Ultimania Scenario in the mail. He wanted me to be the one to make this post, and it is my honor to now provide you with his scans, and translations, of page 394 of the guidebook, on ‘For the one I love.’

The header to this section reads

For the one I love
Through the long journeys, the love of the protagonists develop. Occasionally they become separated, but the two’s value to one another gives them the great strength to overcome whatever crisis may come.

Of direct interest to we fans of Final Fantasy Seven, however, are two images and their associated text, which we have provided, zoomed in on, so those playing at home can check our work.

First, is a picture discussing the Gold Saucer date. The text describing it reads

Secret date

At the Gold Saucer, Cloud receives an invitation from one of his companions. Who comes around with the invitation is dependent on Cloud’s behavior.

Nothing so amazing, no, all it tells us is that the date itself is up to player control, so no one version is ‘official,’ but the next section is not only what hopefully will make for a swift end to the LTD, but also confirms a scenario I have been arguing in favor of for quite a number of years.

As you can see, the image is of Cloud and Tifa’s night under the Highwind. That on a page entitled ‘for the one I love’ is very conclusive in its own right. The text, however, takes it a step further, and reads

The night before the final battle

Thanks to Tifa, Cloud regains himself, and before the final battle with Sephiroth, without using words, he confirms with her that their feelings match.

Read that again. ‘without using words, [Cloud] confirms with [Tifa] that their feelings match.’ So, not only can we unequivocally state that these matching feelings are those of love, but that these feelings of love are confirmed without words. In other words, physically. So, yes, there was almost certainly sex under the Highwind that night. I do not wish to bore everyone with a regurgitation of all the related materials, but this does confirm  that yes, Cloud and Tifa’s relationship past this point are that of lovers. And that, my friends, settles the Love Triangle. Even if you don’t want to believe it.

Also of note is that this page shows all the other ‘canon’ couples in the main parties, Ingus and Sara, Cecil and Rosa, Locke and Celes, Squall and Rinoa, Steiner and Beatrix, Zidane and Garnet, and Tidus and Yuna in their moments of revelation. So Cloud and Tifa are certainly in good company, hugging together underneath the Highwind along all the other canon couples of Final Fantasy.

One last thing, before I go. I have one thought, from Tres himself, that he asked me to relate to everyone. That thought is, “All that’s left to say is: Abandon ‘ship!” Wise words indeed, since that ship has been undeniably sunk, if you’ll pardon the pun, by canon.

UPDATE: If you wish to see the translation of the page as a whole, please follow this link to Tres’s translations of what the rest of this page says about revelation of romantic feelings in other games, and what the box in the lower right says about displays of non-romantic feelings.

811 comments

  1. Zephyr
    #1 Zephyr 22 January, 2010, 22:55

    My response to simply reading the title of this article was:

    “Oh, so Cloti has finally been officially confirmed?” only to grin like an idiot as I was actually reading it. Years spent debating and pulling my hair out over the most asinine arguements, over. THANK. GOD.

    Hurrah for Cloti! Hurrah for the sex scene finally being officially confirmed as well. Two things that shoudn’t have been made to debate over in the first place. It was so obvious, it hurt.

    Reply to this comment
    • Cthulhu
      Cthulhu 8 February, 2010, 14:11

      Well, ‘confirmed’… I can gesture ‘ilu’ without doing the nasty, ;D.

  2. Kat
    #2 Kat 23 January, 2010, 00:11

    Reverend!

    Reply to this comment
  3. Splintered
    #3 Splintered 23 January, 2010, 00:12

    Inb4 five page counter essay + Angry comments on how LTD is a biased Cloti based site.

    Reply to this comment
    • Ryushikaze
      Ryushikaze Author 23 January, 2010, 00:13

      It will spark far more than five pages, and they will all boil down to whining about biased translators without any actual translations of their own.

  4. Teresa
    #4 Teresa 23 January, 2010, 00:20

    OK, we have to remember this is Japanese translated to English. “not said with words” does not automatically mean sex in Japanese thinking. Also, if Cloti is indeed canon, where is it in Advent Children?

    Reply to this comment
    • Ryushikaze
      Ryushikaze Author 23 January, 2010, 00:22

      “Feelings of love confirmed without words” + Risque = Hanky Panky, Teresa.
      And Cloti IS in AC. Tifa has a future together with Cloud, she’s the mother of Their family, she has the role of someone’s lover, etc. etc. etc.

    • Teresa
      Teresa 23 January, 2010, 07:04

      Do they kiss or hug or anything romantic in AC? I really don’t remember much of it.

    • fairheartstrife
      fairheartstrife 23 January, 2010, 07:30

      You mean aside from being face to face in a flowerfield while Nibleheim music play around them? Aside from the lingering smiles exchanged during the Bahumut fight and at the end?

      But when you compare how many times Tifa and Cloud hugged or kissed to how many times he and Aerith did… oh, wait…

      It’ subtle, but it’s there. 🙂

    • Teresa
      Teresa 23 January, 2010, 08:17

      I’m still talking about whether or not they had sex, not if they loved/liked/whatever each other. Again, it’s a JAPANESE book and we are reading into it with ENGLISH assumptions.

    • Ryushikaze
      Ryushikaze Author 23 January, 2010, 12:00

      Actually, Teresa, it is because the dialogue in this scene, specifically ‘Words are not the only way to etc.’ has been described as risque and mature by Nojima, and that the original version that they had to scrap even more explicitly implied sex happened that I am so sure that the way the two confirmed their feelings without speaking them was a physical one.

      As for the lack of intimacy in Advent Children, Cloud is suffering from a fatal wasting disease through most of the film, and it’s not really the right time for such things, given all that’s going on. They do, however, share a number of meaningful looks with each other.

    • oglop_master
      oglop_master 10 February, 2010, 15:04

      Yeah, Ryu-chan. I read that interview as well. The scene described as risque was scrapped. Meaning it’s not in the final product. And that it doesn’t count. What was used in the final product wasn’t canon, or else you’d have some detective guy running around and Vincent would be a womanizer.

      And if you had a fatal disease, wouldn’t you still be in love? And for the simple reason that it was fatal, wouldn’t you want to hug and kiss and do cheesy stuff like that? Because you wouldn’t get to see that person later on? Especially when you knew that the disease wasn’t contagious? Meaningful looks, my foot. That’s a load of crap. Cloud also shared meaningful looks with Vincent, to name one person, but that doesn’t mean that he and Vincent are gay lovers like you think Tifa and Cloud are.

    • Vendel
      Vendel 10 February, 2010, 16:18

      The scene was toned down glop. The implications were not changed.

      Just one more thing you got wrong.

    • oglop_master
      oglop_master 10 February, 2010, 19:13

      So Vendel. Which scene did you get?

    • Lily Ella
      Lily Ella 23 January, 2010, 11:36

      http://www.midnighteye.com/reviews/round-up_019.shtml#final-fantasy-advent-children

      “One of the more curious aspects of the film is Cloud’s relationship with Tifa, voiced by Ayumi Ito of the Shunji Awai films Swallowtail Butterfly (1996) and All About Lily Chou-Chou (2001). Their sterile interactions recall Hong Kong films of the 1980s, where lovers seemed more like reserved platonic life-partners, and Chow Yun-Fat slept in bed with his jumper on. Cloud and Tifa share a business and raise two children, who tellingly are not their own. Rather than a wedding ring, both characters wear a matching red ribbon tied around their arm. They sleep in separate beds and their adult love affair seems relegated to dewy-eyed stares or other stalwarts of pubescent romance. A cynical critic may wonder if any possible romantic element of the film was curbed to appeal more to the designated audience of awkward teenage boys.”

      ^ a theory which might explain the lack of ~hugging and kissing.~

    • Teresa
      Teresa 23 January, 2010, 14:54

      Did the reviewer understand why they were wearing ribbons? XD

    • Fighter
      Fighter 24 January, 2010, 06:31

      “Did the reviewer understand why they were wearing ribbons? XD”

      It doesn’t matter. Your argument is that C/T is not visible in AC when in fact plenty of people saw it.

    • orah
      orah 29 August, 2013, 03:14

      the link is wrong (its this one http://www.midnighteye.com/reviews/final-fantasy-vii-advent-children/) but thanks a lot for the insight. wow i never knew this! how did you find it?

      XD

    • Tennyo
      Tennyo 23 January, 2010, 16:57

      Do the really need to?

    • I Am Not Me
      I Am Not Me 23 January, 2010, 23:23

      “Did the reviewer understand why they were wearing ribbons? XD”

      It prevents all status ailments.

      …oh, and also symbolizes Aerith as still being part of AVALANCHE as shown by everyone else wearing the ribbons as well.

      Also, the lack of intimacy between Cloud and Tifa doesn’t disprove anything. They don’t need to have sex or hug or kiss every time they want to show they love each other. Exchanging lingering looks and gentle smiles is enough, especially if “without using words, he confirms with her that their feelings match” is the thought within these actions. If only kissing, hugging, and screwing each other would be the only things that show two people love each other, then how lovable are those prostitutes. liek ttly

      /lol

    • kira
      kira 6 February, 2010, 10:13

      yeah that’s right dude. yep, it’s not by the sexual intimacies or something like that which really matters. they’ve been supporting each other ever since. they’ve been always willing, happy and moved to be there for one another. and those sweet little treasured care are enough to tell that they do love each other, more deeply and they just didn’t seem to notice that in fact they were committed to support one another in love.

      honestly dude,… cloud and tifa loveteam rockz so much it makes me wanna dream of them everynight. totally awesome loveteam!.:D

    • Quexinos
      Quexinos 23 January, 2010, 05:08

      I would like you to watch a video I made Teresa. It explains all:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up5-_CiVLxs

    • Teresa
      Teresa 23 January, 2010, 07:03

      Thanks for the link, I’ll check it out!
      I have to say that I don’t care about Cloti/Clifa or Claeris/whatever (ugh I hate name smooshes) cause I’m a Terra/Cloud girl myself, but I do have an interest in semantics and also how translations between languages have to take into account the culture along with the actual words.

    • I Am Not Me
      I Am Not Me 23 January, 2010, 05:39

      LOL.

      See guys? What did I just say seconds ago?

  5. I Am Not Me
    #5 I Am Not Me 23 January, 2010, 05:38

    LOLOL

    …you all realize that some people are going to be able to play their “ur is wrongz tranzlaterz thiz iz real tranzlashunz” card, rite?

    I shall do my own translation and show you all that Clack is canon. Even though I can’t read Japanese and I can only go to McDonalds, I shall do my best to re-translate what you translated and prove that Clack will always prevail.

    I HAVE NANA WITH ME \(*O*)/

    “Thanks to Tifa, Cloud regains himself, and before the final battle with Sephiroth, without using words, he confirms with her that their feelings match.”

    DUH. We all know this. Cloud confirms that their feelings as FRIENDS match. I mean, seriously. What’s the big deal. We knew this all along.

    THIZ PROOVZ NUTHIN. LTD RE-OPENED BETCHES.

    /good post, btw. ttly asking for dramaz (just kidding)

    Reply to this comment
    • Syneiam
      Syneiam 23 January, 2010, 15:13

      MeiMei, that’s exactly what was told LOL. XD

    • I Am Not Me
      I Am Not Me 24 January, 2010, 06:21

      Wait… you serious? D:

    • Nana
      Nana 24 January, 2010, 20:18

      *dies* Yes Mei, that is what was told…

      But NO MATTER! Its still obvious that Cloud was doing this ALL for Zack.

      Its pretty safe to assume that Cloud was doubting his survival when going to face Sephiroth, so he knew he was close to seeing Zack again. And of course, them being in love and being two bishounen, they were going to smex each other up the moment they saw each other again. But the problem is…CLOUD’S A VIRGIN!

      Cloud obviously wants to satisfy Zack, so he turns to the nearest person who also manages to understand his dilemma, since Tifa himself is madly in love with Zack and wants what’s best for Zack. A.K.A Hot bishounen secks.

      So the whole “he confirms with her that their feelings match” means that they feel that Zack deserves the best smex possible. Tifa has a penis, so Cloud can practice all he wants without it feeling awkward!

      *shakes head* How can you people possibly think he’s confirming he’s in ‘love’ with her. Haha, no way. That’s ridiculous.

      I LOVE SHEEPIE~! Her essay roxxors

    • oglop_master
      oglop_master 29 January, 2010, 19:39

      Cloud is not a virgin. Two words: Honeybee Inn.

      (Or at least, if you did everything in Wall Market, he’s not. As far as we know.)

    • kira
      kira 6 February, 2010, 10:25

      LOLOLOLOL! i just read your post man. haha. and i was so hit by the word “CLACK”[cloud&zack]…. and “Clack will always prevail”. dude is this just a friend to friend or buddy to buddy team up or… somthin else…??? please i need to know man. hahah. :D.

    • I Am Not Mewtwo
      I Am Not Mewtwo 8 February, 2010, 07:22

      It pertains to the (canon) romantic relationship between Zack and Cloud of course! D:

      You can say (butt) buddy to (butt) buddy team up too, I guess. 🙂

    • Cthulhu
      Cthulhu 8 February, 2010, 14:20

      You’re twelve, you’re not supposed to suggest bumsex yet, =D.

  6. cReo
    #6 cReo 23 January, 2010, 06:03

    any respond/answers from the Pinkers yet?

    can anyone who do have access to their Pink Fortress pls tell us what’s happening inside..

    destiny failed.. any news?, bleh

    Reply to this comment
  7. neriteka
    #7 neriteka 23 January, 2010, 07:11

    Ohh!! Finally! *cough*neverlikedAerithanyway*cough*

    But that means Cloud’s even more off his rocker than I thought. How could he have acted that way towards her in AC?

    I’m still gonna ship Tifa with others~!

    Reply to this comment
  8. Til
    #8 Til 23 January, 2010, 07:18

    Wow, this site is pretty desperate. Every time a new article is posted that “proves” the Cloud/Tifa/Aerith debate is over, I come in hoping to find that evidence, and each time I’m disappointed.

    This article says that Cloud has romantic feelings for Tifa. NO KIDDING! That has NEVER been in question, at least not in the fandom circles I run in. The question has always been who he preferred, or who he had deeper feelings for, Tifa or Aerith. Unfortunately, the article doesn’t even address that, but I’m not surprised this group has declared mission accomplished aboard this particular aircraft carrier.

    BTW, “Cloti” has been the canon couple since 1997, when Aerith went toes up. You can’t exactly be in a relationship with a dead woman. I’ll never understand why Cloud/Tifa fans are so insecure about the pairing.

    Reply to this comment
    • Squall_of_SeeD
      Squall_of_SeeD 23 January, 2010, 08:36

      You’re kidding, right?

      It doesn’t “just say” that Cloud has romantic feelings for Tifa. It says that they confirmed their feelings are the same and that he did something somewhere on a spectrum of “groped and hugged her” to “fucked her brains out.”

      On a page that puts this moment alongside moments of declaration/realization shared between characters like Squall and Rinoa, Tidus and Yuna, Celes and Locke.

      Really, there’s nothing to be debated anymore.

    • I Am Not Me
      I Am Not Me 23 January, 2010, 09:18

      “I’ll never understand why Cloud/Tifa fans are so insecure about the pairing.”

      Because Cloud/Aerith fans are also insecure about their pairing and thusly can’t seem to grasp the simple concept that you, yourself, has stated (“Cloti” has been the canon couple since 1997)?

      I don’t even understand why there’s still a debate about it anyways. But you know… fanboys/girls.

      /lol

    • Splintered
      Splintered 23 January, 2010, 14:08

      You’ve must have been in a very happy fandom because a lot of the places I’ve seen have argued Cloud only loved Tifa a long, long time ago and he has no feelings for her now.

    • Tennyo
      Tennyo 23 January, 2010, 17:03

      Ever read the comments about how apparently Aerith is able to materialize before Cloud whenever she wants so that they can get it on in the flowerfields? Yeah those are new.

    • Fighter
      Fighter 24 January, 2010, 06:36

      “This article says that Cloud has romantic feelings for Tifa. NO KIDDING! That has NEVER been in question, at least not in the fandom circles I run in.”

      Good for you. But most people deal with completely different arguments.

    • kira
      kira 6 February, 2010, 10:44

      really? since 1997? oh cool! i was seven years old at that time. whoa so good to know that dude, thanks. “insecure”… hmmm… well maybe they just couldn’t stand it when aerith gets paired with cloud because in fact cloud’s really really a good person and awesome and so good of a lover and they’d think as he gets paired up with aerith, that he deserves better than this girl…i mean,not that aerith is not deserving for him but he belongs to the other girl,..a woman at the maturity of her thinking, a nice, sweet, loving girl who truly knew him all along, the one who’s done everything to keep her senses alive though she’s been so painfully damaged for some time, the one who’d do everything to keep him comfy and safe and important. CLOTI fans just wants everybody to know that Cloud is for Tifa because he belongs to her, the girl he truly deserves and Tifa belongs to him, the man she truly deserves. ^_^… and anyways, aerith truly belongs to zack and zack to her. 😀

  9. Slipstreamer
    #9 Slipstreamer 23 January, 2010, 07:26

    Tuis post just ruined many people’s lives.

    Reply to this comment
  10. Teresa
    #10 Teresa 23 January, 2010, 08:19

    ps: can we get translations for whatever is said about Ingus/Sara and Locke/Celes?

    Reply to this comment
  11. liecellie
    #11 liecellie 23 January, 2010, 09:13

    I don’t get why he can’t just love them both…

    Reply to this comment
    • I Am Not Me
      I Am Not Me 23 January, 2010, 09:20

      So it’s okay for you to have a relationship with a guy/girl who loves a dead man/woman just as equally as he loves you?

      …whoa.

    • Maidenofwar
      Maidenofwar 23 January, 2010, 09:31

      It happens.

    • Maidenofwar
      Maidenofwar 23 January, 2010, 09:35

      I also don’t really think love can be measured >.>

    • I Am Not Me
      I Am Not Me 23 January, 2010, 10:16

      That’s true.

      But I’d totally hate it if my boyfriend comes up to me and says “I love you more than anything in the world… maybe except my ex-girlfriend who died a year ago. But don’t worry, you’re still number one in my heart…sometimes. Yeah. Or maybe I love her more. She’s dead though, and you’re alive, so you should matter more. But I love her too… Actually, I love you both, is that okay?”

      Yeah. I’d probably slap him across the face multiple times before he could finish half of all that. Besides, he’s too young to have a dead girlfriend. Trufax.

      /is shutting up now

    • kira
      kira 6 February, 2010, 10:49

      he does dude… but of course there will always be that most special someone… the one and only love of his life. the outstanding one who gets at the top blossom. the most treasured possession. and that’s Tifa. 😀

  12. Sloppygegger
    #12 Sloppygegger 23 January, 2010, 09:31

    Cloud and tifa have had cannon material for a Long time…I for one know that this will not stop cleriths from keeping the pink alive.
    Cloti rules for me

    Reply to this comment
  13. Sloppygegger
    #13 Sloppygegger 23 January, 2010, 09:38

    This is not new, and I don’t think that clerith will stop keeping pink alive
    cloti has been cannon since 1997

    Reply to this comment
  14. Lynn Strife
    #14 Lynn Strife 23 January, 2010, 10:01

    I knew it xD
    Cloud and Tifa are just the perfect couple! ^_^
    Aerith belong to Zack/Zack belongs to Aerith – that’s why you see them together in AC/ACC, right? =P

    CLOTI!!!!! XD

    Reply to this comment
  15. Vendel
    #15 Vendel 23 January, 2010, 15:57

    OMG it’s Aerith and CLoud!!!…Wait what does it say there? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

    Reply to this comment
  16. Ahvia
    #16 Ahvia 23 January, 2010, 16:06

    all this time i thought cloud and yuffie was canon

    this article has really opened my eyes to the realities of final fantasy seven

    Reply to this comment
    • Mii'z
      Mii'z 26 January, 2010, 02:05

      Cloud and Yuffie beats the hell outta both of these pairings.
      It’s one of my absolute favorites. <3
      Well besides ZackxCloud 😉

  17. Mr. Facepalm
    #17 Mr. Facepalm 23 January, 2010, 19:50

    This whole “who does Cloud like the most” debate is getting extremely ridiculous lately. Oh wait, it always was. Doesn’t the game make it quite clear that Cloud and Tifa get together? Considering the fact that the competition is DEAD?

    I think there are way too many lonely romanticists with no grip on how love works in the FFVII fandom. People don’t usually fall in love with ONE person in their entire life and stick with them to the end forever. It’s not like Cloud either loves Tifa and hates Aerith or the other way around. In FFVII, Cloud and Aerith are clearly attracted to eachother, and there’s no doubt Cloud wants her over Tifa. Then she dies, and Cloud, being merely a human being with human urges, starts looking for new skirts. Thus, him and Tifa.

    And this article does absolutely nothing for either side of the silly argument anyway. There’s no new information, just restating what we’ve all seen in the game for over 10 years.

    Reply to this comment
    • Ryushikaze
      Ryushikaze 23 January, 2010, 21:01

      I would agree with all this, save the ‘ and there’s no doubt Cloud wants her over Tifa’ which is not obvious. You can choose to act like that if you wish, but there’s nothing official to suggest he ‘wanted her over Tifa’ as being canon. Attracted sure, more interested in her than Tifa, not so much. But that’s all beside the point.

    • oglop_master
      oglop_master 10 February, 2010, 15:19

      Disclaimer: The above statement by User:Ryushikaze has nothing to do with the canon and only reflect on said user’s own personal opinion.

    • Vendel
      Vendel 10 February, 2010, 16:19

      Disclaimer: The above statement by glop is of his normal standard and can be safely ignored.

    • oglop_master
      oglop_master 10 February, 2010, 19:00

      It’s kind of funny because you don’t know how wrong you are. And in this case, there’s no way it could be an opinion. You’re simply wrong. And digging yourself into a hole.

    • Fighter
      Fighter 24 January, 2010, 06:40

      “In FFVII, Cloud and Aerith are clearly attracted to eachother, and there’s no doubt Cloud wants her over Tifa.”

      No. You can somewhat choose who Cloud prefers in his messed up state. But that’s all.

    • shaoran
      shaoran 3 May, 2013, 12:15

      It’s not just because the competitor is dead. It’s about cloud’s real feelings. When he met aerith, his not himself. He’s confused my multiple persona on many reasons. He assume’s Zack’s character because he’s too ashamed of himself (not being able to become soldier and failing to save his friend).

      He think’s he’s Zack on liking Aerith (being Zack’s girlfriend and telling him to say hi after he died)
      Being 1st class Soldier (Originally Zack has become)

      How can you even call it love when you’re not yourself when he’s with Aerith. He always assume the personality of Zack (including his love, protection to Aerith even through her death)

      Plus Cloud can only be on his TRUE self when he’s with TIFA. The shy and petite cloud who’s not all that confident! complete opposite of his original character when he met Aerith. So no matter how many times we argue, Cloud can only be cloud when he’s with Tifa. Not with someone else with Aerith.

      Again it’s cloud… not the other way around. It’s his feelings~! not her *Aerith*

    • shaoran
      shaoran 3 May, 2013, 12:15

      It’s not just because the competitor is dead. It’s about cloud’s real feelings. When he met aerith, his not himself. He’s confused my multiple persona on many reasons. He assume’s Zack’s character because he’s too ashamed of himself (not being able to become soldier and failing to save his friend).

      He think’s he’s Zack on liking Aerith (being Zack’s girlfriend and telling him to say hi after he died)
      Being 1st class Soldier (Originally Zack has become)

      How can you even call it love when you’re not yourself when he’s with Aerith. He always assume the personality of Zack (including his love, protection to Aerith even through her death)

      Plus Cloud can only be on his TRUE self when he’s with TIFA. The shy and petite cloud who’s not all that confident! complete opposite of his original character when he met Aerith. So no matter how many times we argue, Cloud can only be cloud when he’s with Tifa. Not with someone else with Aerith.

      Again it’s cloud… not the other way around. It’s his feelings~! not her *Aerith*

  18. Zephyr
    #18 Zephyr 23 January, 2010, 20:45

    Cloud didn’t go looking for new skirts…he regained his true identity and memories. Cloud had always been in love with Tifa. -___- You make it sound so degrading.

    Not to say Cloud wasn’t attracted to Aerith, because he was. In love with….eh, I wouldn’t go that far. But thats just the vibe I got from the game.

    Reply to this comment
  19. 123ff
    #19 123ff 23 January, 2010, 21:49

    this is about as canon as maiden of the planet(as in both are in an ultimania)

    I still think the LTD is alive

    Reply to this comment
    • Ryushikaze
      Ryushikaze Author 23 January, 2010, 22:28

      Maiden- even if canon- tells us absolutely nothing about Cloud’s feelings. This tells us Cloud’s feelings match those of Tifa’s, and that they confirmed said feelings without words. On a page entitled ‘For the one I love’ amongst the other canon couples of FF in their revelation scenes.

      To completely deny this page as ‘canon’ means you have to call the 20th Anniversary Ultimania acanon for every single Final Fantasy. That’s… asinine, to say the least.

      Seriously, 123ff, the discussion is over. There is a canon answer. Check and Mate.

    • 123ff
      123ff 24 January, 2010, 00:28

      hmm…..
      I just always thought it was up to the player. I see the “For the one I love” section as a guide to the romantic scenes and situations for final fantasy games, of which the highwind scene definitely is. You cannot have a guide to final fantasy romances without giving attention to the highwind scene.
      The problem is that the scene is optional and is only triggered if the game is played a certain way. I’ve played the game favoring tifa and triggered the scene, and played the game favoring aerith and triggered a highwind scene that is far from romantic.
      It’s my opinion that there are two possible canon couples in VII and it was up to the player about which one would come to fruition. There is much disagreement(and of course you know this) in interpretation between CloudxTifa supporters and CoudxAerith supporters in terms of what happened in the game/compilation because the player’s actions altered the dialogue, events, and the overall interpretation of the game/compilation.
      CloudxTifa supporters trigger the high affection highwind scene where they (Coud/Tifa) share mutual feelings thus are a couple.
      CloudxAerith supporters never see the high affection highwind scene and thus view Cloud speaking of meeting Aerith in the afterlife confirming that CloudxAerith is the canon couple.
      This shapes how the player will view the compilation which is why there is nothing overtly “set in stone” romantic between CoudxTifa and CoudxAerith, only things that can be interpreted as such.
      To summarize: (1)There are 2 canon couples in final fantasy VII(the one that comes to fruition is up to you) (2) The ultimania “For the one I love” section a summary of final fantasy romance/couples(CoudxTifa), and you can’t talk about VII’s couples and romance without talking about the highwind scene. (3) I know what happens in high affection highwind scene as does everyone who has triggered it and we all know that mutual feelings are shared. The issue is that the scene does not have to happen which is why there is a love triangle(and love triangle debate) in the first place.
      Have a great weekend!

    • Vendel
      Vendel 24 January, 2010, 00:36

      As far as SE is concerned the ‘high’ version is the canon one.

      This update ONCE AGAIN tells us exactly what happened that night.

      The date scene and many other things on the first disk are up to player control. Who Cloud loves is not.

    • Rinoaxyzriana
      Rinoaxyzriana 27 January, 2010, 19:51

      I really dont think ^^”

      Maybe you didn’t remember more and more Clerith fact as SE concered…-___-
      and in the Highwing scene that’s not the canon but only one of the some eventually romantic scene in the game .

      And the text DONT SAY THEY HAVE SEX but only what Tifa Said to Cloud,obviosly with a double sense (like the scene with Don Corneo..but they dont have sex or not?) and i really dont understand why,if two person liked each others as a very close friend ,they didn’t sleep together without have sex O_o bah…

    • oglop_master
      oglop_master 10 February, 2010, 15:23

      The Highwind scene is entirely up to player choice. Either one is canon. It does not matter which was mentioned more often.

    • Vendel
      Vendel 10 February, 2010, 16:22

      No glop. It very much does matter which one gets mentioned. The fact that one version of that scene is almost never mentioned. While the other one is almost exclusively mentioned in official materials means quite a lot.

      As far as SE is concerned the “meaningful” night Cloud and Tifa spend under the HW is what happened. And the “apathetic” night they spent gets 1 or 2 mentions that it exist.

    • Ryushikaze
      Ryushikaze Author 24 January, 2010, 00:42

      The problem is that the scene is optional and is only triggered if the game is played a certain way. I’ve played the game favoring tifa and triggered the scene, and played the game favoring aerith and triggered a highwind scene that is far from romantic.

      The U20 itself is telling us that the other version doesn’t count. That the option isn’t there any more. Only the ‘high’ version of the scene is listed, and it is listed as being only of only four ‘important scenes’ of Final Fantasy seven worth mentioning. And the high version itself is the one that more logically flows into the rest of the compilation, what with Cloud and Tifa moving in together, and their having a future together etc. etc. etc.

      There may be multiple versions of the scene, but that doesn’t mean the narrative doesn’t go a certain way. The U20 has told us that it goes the way of the ‘high version’, and that that version is a confirmation of romantic feelings between Cloud and Tifa.
      But it’s not just the U20 that says this. The 10th Anniversary, Crisis Core, even as far back as the Ultimania Omega say that they confirmed their feelings for each other that night.

    • kira
      kira 6 February, 2010, 11:02

      well they did really bothered to have a highwind scene. and that’s with Cloud and Tifa only. the point there is…. they really made a good couple for the producers to ahve had acknowledged that in highwind. and dude, maybe they let aerith die because zack died, and that makes sense… because the way i see it, aerith really belongs to zack and zack to aerith that’s why they died together and are both in paradise together and left cloud and tifa be together on earth to develop their feelings more deeply and to reach the point of being settled as a couple for good. ^_^

    • Ravenna
      Ravenna 25 July, 2011, 13:01

      Nomura himself said that they didn’t want to kill anyone off at first, but someone had told them that it was necessary since the theme of FFVII is life and death. they even said that the death should have a very strong impact on the gamers, so they decided that it should be aerith. the original characters should’ve been just aerith, cloud and barret. but they had to add tifa as another heroine since they were going to kill aerith. they wanted to make people see the strong soul connection in ffvii.

      and, with the novella Maiden of the Planet, you can clearly see that Aerith no longer feels anything for Zack. Nomura himself stated that theirs was a teenage kind of love.

      Lastly, what feelings were confirmed exactly? And if those feelings were confirmed, in the novella Case of Tifa, Tifa goes to Cloud in the night and asks him “Do you love me?” To which Cloud didn’t answer and merely looked perplexed. If they had confirmed their feelings are mutual, why couldn’t he just say yes? He said “yes” when Tifa changed her question to “Do you love Marlene”.

      Regarding the ‘sex’ part, that’s is quite a thought. Sex on rocks/hard surface? Nice setting for something that is ‘canon’. Really, who in the world likes that kind of thing? The scene fades out with them fully clothed, just sitting. The next scene shows them exactly how they were before the scene fades out. Where are the signs of them having sex there?

      If Cloud and Tifa had already confirmed their feelings for each other in the Highwind scene, why does Cloud say at the end that he ‘could meet HER there’ in the Promised Land?

      Then, when he gets Geostigma, he lives away from Tifa and the kids, why? Isn’t it that when you have something terminal that may end your life, you’d spend it with those you love?

      And with Case of Denzel, Cloud thought that Aerith had brought the boy to him only. Then when Tifa said that Denzel was brought to both her and Cloud, the latter just replies to it with, “Fine”. What does that mean? After that, he moves out. Is that something you would do when you’re forming a family with one that you ‘supposedly’ love?

      Just thoughts. :))

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